The Real Cost Of Religious Faith – Atheist Experience 696

The Real Cost Of Religious Faith – Atheist Experience 696

49 Replies to “The Real Cost Of Religious Faith – Atheist Experience 696”

  1. I've watched this clip several times, posted under different accounts, and I find Matt's, and Jeff's response so on the spot. Mark is a douche, and can't see past his bible, which is unfortunate, but how Matt explains to him the damage done by his way of thinking is awesome. It's helped me to see what the future most likely holds for me once I tell my family I'm done with religion. Thanks, Matt and Jeff.

  2. Christianity is 'supposed' to promote love and understanding. Christians are 'supposed' to spread the word of god and bring others into the fold so they too can be saved…so I have to second Jeff's question…why do christians feel the need to automatically condemn those that are not of their faith?, do they have any idea that when you tell an atheist they are going to hell they are only showing their ignorance…atheists don't believe in hell…do they think that telling an atheist that they are going to hell, will prompt them to, convert there on the spot, because they are suddenly afraid of something that doesn't exist…just weirdness throughout.

  3. Lol, there is no Satan. Just evil people doing evil things because God told them too, or more like, their family and their religious beliefs. Indoctrination 101

  4. Bottom line, believers believe because of peer pressure and fear of not being excepted by the community, so it's a form of drone mentality!

  5. Religion…..Seed of the REPROBATE mind. One day in the far future another species will look at humanity and be staggered at the inability of some humans to 'THINK FOR THEMSELVES" Unfuckingbelievable !!!!!

  6. Is Mark real? People have told me that he is actually a really good troll and they traced his IP address Canada, not Austin, TX.

  7. About the age of the earth. 6 to 10000 years vs 4 billion or so. We cannot know for certain who is committing scientific fraud or not but just what has been broadcast on television or in textbooks. If anyone hates the argument the book says it's true so it must be I would think it would be the atheist.

  8. Matt: Do you at least acknowledge that all of the scientific evidence points to an earth that is vastly older than 6000 to 10 000 years old?

    Caller: It doesn’t prove that there’s no god.

    Matt: You’re right. I didn’t say that it proves that there’s no god. What I am saying is: here is something we’ve learned about the universe and it doesn’t match with your literal view of the bible. Now there’s a conflict there and we need to resolve that, and some people resolve it in favour of the bible and say the bible is absolutely right and ignore whatever actual evidence is presented there.
    I find that to be patently absurd, because it turns Christianity into a self-contradictory proposition, which is, and so by the way is the entire idea of a revelation in the New Testament… because your position, to the extent that I understand it, is one where there is a god who has an important message for mankind and somehow he only reveals it to certain individuals who then write it down and thousands of years after this initial revelation we have to rely on copies of copies of translations of copies by anonymous authors with no originals, and the textual testimony to a miracle, for example the loaves and fishes- there’s no amount of reports, anecdotal testimonial reports, that could be sufficient to justified believing that the event actually happened as reported. No amount. And anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand this and if it wanted to convey this information to people in a way that was believable would not be relying on text to do so. And this for me this is the nail in the coffin for Christianity.

    The god that Christians believe in is amazingly stupid if it wants to actually achieve its goal of spreading this information to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die out, by relying on anecdotal testimony. That’s not a pathway to truth, and anything that qualify for a god would know this, which means either that god doesn’t exist, or it doesn’t care enough about those people who understand the nature of evidence to actually present it. Now, which of those possibilities do you think is accurate?

    Caller: I think you do need faith to believe it.

    Matt: Sure. Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn’t a pathway to truth …every religion has some sort of faith… if faith is your pathway you can’t distinguish between Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and any of these others.
    How is it that you use reason as a path to truth in every endeavour of your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, the most important truth, you’re saying that faith is required, and how does that reflect on a god who supposedly exists…what kind of god requires faith instead of evidence?

    Caller: Well, I think you probably have faith about a lot of things too.

    Matt: Like what? I have reasonable expectations based on evidence. I have trust that has been earned. I will grant trust tentatively. I don’t have faith. Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don’t have evidence. If you can come up with something I believe that I don’t have evidence for, guess what I’ll do? I’ll stop believing it. That’s the nature of a rational mind. That is the goal.

    My only goal was to be the best Christian which I could be and represent this to people who didn’t believe, and what I’ve found, because I actually cared about whether or not my beliefs were true, rather than whether they felt good, was that my beliefs weren’t justified. Try as I might. And pray as hard as I could. No answer comes, no evidence is forthcoming, and when I talk to people about this the only answer they ever offer is the one you gave which is “well you’ve just gotta have faith”. Well, sorry, I don’t…because faith is not a virtue. Faith is gullibility. It’s evidence that determines whether or not your perception of reality is reasonable and in conjunction with the world as it is.

    Caller: Well I think church give a lot of people some community and some values.

    Matt: Sure. So what? That has no tie to the truth of the supernatural claims. Religions and churches have tons and tons of benefits for the “in” group, and some of them even have benefits for some of the “out” groups, with you know feeding the homeless; although I really wish, as many of the atheists do, we have the atheists helping the homeless group in Austin, where we will actually help the homeless without making them sit through a sermon first. You know, we’re not holding their sandwich ransom in the name of Jesus. There is no good thing that the church or religion does that cannot be achieved by purely secular means, and there’s no benefit, positive benefit of churches and religions that necessarily demonstrates the truth of their supernatural claims.
    Jeff: But there is, this is my personal hobby horse today, there is a cost to deciding that you’re gonna take, in particular, Christianity on faith and that is when you run into folks like us who do not believe it you are compelled, because you’ve decided to believe Christianity, you are compelled to think all kinds of horrific things about us and… come at us with these threats of eternal torment which just draws an insurmountable line between us. We cannot be friends because of what you have decided to take on faith. That’s the cost.

    Matt: I’ll tell you that that divisive costs plays out not only in the previous caller who had to give up his job because of good intentioned Christians, but I have a fiancé sitting in the room who is essentially estranged from a good portion of her family who considers me to be the devil. Now, I may not be a perfect person, far from it, but I am generally a good person and a caring person and I do whatever I can to live the best life I can… the absurdity of the divisive nature of Christianity in particular…it breaks my heart.

    People who actually understand what love is, people who actually understand what morality is, people who actually understand reality… it is almost unbearable to watch the people that you love be so absolutely duped and to a divisive hate-filled religion that they think is not divisive, they think it is inclusive, and they think it is positive. It kills me and its one of the reasons why I do this because I for 25 plus years believed this stuff. I am so happy, so happy that I no longer think that my former roommate is destined for hell. I am so happy that despite the fact that… the nature of my relationship of my relationship with my parents has changed I no longer have to worry about them.

    The division is entirely one-sided. I didn’t end relationships when I became an atheist. Christians ended those relationships and it’s because their particular religion cannot tolerate… I have letters from people who said we can no longer associate with you, you are of the devil.

    It’s possible they are right…but the only way you can demonstrate that is with reason and evidence-not faith. And I don’t know how we can fix a world where people have been so convinced that they are doing the right thing out of compassion and love and trying to help people when it is absolute poison, when it is absolutely destructive.

    I wish everybody could go through what I had to go through so they can have a proper understanding of “wow, how the heck could I have believed those things that I believed?” and how much better life is when you wanna deal with reality on reality’s terms…

    …If your whole position is that the foundation of your belief is necessarily dependent on faith then we have nothing to talk about, because I don’t think that that’s a good thing and until you demonstrate that faith is a good thing, how could you possibly convince somebody? And, by the way, how do you go about demonstrating faith as a good thing without evidence? It all comes back to reason and evidence.

  9. If he believes in heaven and hell as real places…where are they? How big are they? Of what do they consist? Do they have boundaries?…&etc.

  10. In the middle ages, religion was the main entertainment.
    Now, with TV, computer games and social media, religion is too boring.
    Compare a good movie with a two hour Catholic mass !
    No contest !

  11. We tell our children that if they don’t believe in Santa, and be good kids he won’t bring them 🎁’s… Funny how preachers gift wrap eternal life in the same exact way…

  12. Oh My, here he is again: is 'LukeSkywalker' aka 'ChrisLanganFanBoy' EVER going to shut up and stop bothering people with his endless blather! Oh Yes, he was banned for being caught at lying, impersonization, and threatening the show and the hosts! Good Riddance!

  13. If faith is a pathway to truth,then why do so many beliefs rely on monetary donations. Is this not an oxymoron.

  14. Sorry, but these theists keep bringing knives to cannon fights.

    It’s really not even close to a fair debate. Sticking your fingers in your ears and saying LA LA LA is NOT evidence.

  15. He doesn't understand that we can choose to believe in God. Belief is not a choice. We can't believe without being convinced.

  16. He committed the shifting of the burden of proof fallacy. He doesn't understand we cannot prove that god or Santa Claus or the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, we cannot prove a negative. Disproving God is as impossible as disproving the flying spaghetti monster or Santa Claus.

  17. He committed the moving the goalposts. He suddenly starts saying that Matt believes in things too which is irrelevant. They are talking about religion and faith in God. If all humans had beliefs, that wouldn't make it more logical to believe in God, it wouldn't give more credibility to the existence of God.

  18. Oh !! This guy. I've heard this one several times. I cannot stand this guy's voice. I love Jeff Dee!!
    "Cause the bible tells me so' . How many times did we sing that since we were tiny people?

  19. He cannot answer a SINGLE question. A HUGE blow and then "uhumm,uh. Blow again. I can't take it anymore! He should have been better prepared before he dialed that number!!!

  20. The good book is pretty clear about stoning unruly children also but believers ignore that and they ingore the endorsement of slavery and a whole bucket load of evil crap to entirely prove they are cherry picking hypocrites who make no attempt to rate the good book taking into account its evil directions and horribly wrong facts. It is dellusional behaviour at best or simply dishonest at worst.
    If a believer looked in the mirror all he can see looking back is a gullible fool making appologies for the notions of ancient folk making up stuff to explain the world when they did not even know where the Sun went at night…why would you believe such unsupported crap from such ignorant folk.

  21. im christians but im not agreed of this doctrine of eternal torture. jesus said we would perish not be tortured forever. Christians serve God not for love but for fear.

  22. I never realized just how lame I sounded for all of those years until I listened to this caller. OMG ! The tragedy is also knowing the guilt trip this guy is going to be on if he fails to convert anybody. With such weak intellectual weapons, how could anybody be surprised if nobody seems too excited about their "good news" ? Yet their pastors and leaders will put the burden of the whole world's salvation on these people, and will tell them that if they fail to convert people, the blood of those people is on their hands ! What a horrible thing religion is !

  23. I am an idiot… and you should believe what I believe so that I don't look like such an idiot any longer. And if you keep making me look like an idiot, then I will threaten you with eternal damnation, again! 🙂

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