[Interviewer] Acharya Shree, sometimes our family and friends ask us to prove our spirituality and soul’s existence to them. How do we prove such a thing? Very nice question and very wisely asked. The existence of soul, let me give a little few symptoms about it. Because people are always doubtful, even they become doctors, engineers, scientists, they never believe in the soul. Why? Because they think it is just a body, or
senses, or they go up to the mind. After that, that is not their approach. Because their approach is just with the tools, with the research, and with chemicals, they can…LSD… They go that far, but they don’t go that
far which it can be proved to them. They have no idea about it. 1st of
all, they’re a few symptoms of it. What is soul? Soul is like if somebody’s being born.
When somebody’s being born that is the first symptom. That when it is being born, it is some kind of aliveness there. And when it is aliveness, there are feelings, there are sensations, there are pain sensations, or happiness sensations, there are emotions. So it is like somebody is being born, first symptom. So that is soul. Because other material which is suppose a rock, a big rock,
it is out of mind already. It will not get being born again. It is there. It is already out of the mind. So the first symptom is
if you see something is being born, anything, there must be a soul. Otherwise there is no activity there. The 2nd symptom of
this is vardhate. Vardhate means seems like increasing. Like a baby is born, the egg is laid by the
chicken or other birds, it seems like it is increasing. When there is increasing, there is kind of growth, kind of.
That is another symptom of that soul exists. Because it is growing. It is like growth is increasing it
something. It is getting somewhere. It’s just taller. So, it is like the 2nd symptom. 3rd symptom is ksheeyate. When they grow like a person
grows six feet tall, or seven feet tall, the time will come it will begin to go down. Their height becomes like less and less. Because things begin to shrink. When you have this symptom, it begins to go down,
anything, begin to shrink, there is also a soul. Or apacita, becomes very down, becomes really down.
Sometimes, they, fat person, becomes like very skinny. He’s shrinking too much. Or another is mriyate. It dies. One day it dies. So
there is no sensation in that body. Or in that person or in that living
being or in that bug. So it is like when there is all sensations,
feelings, aliveness disappear. That is another symptom. That is called mriyate. These are the few symptoms if you keep it
and if you notice the other material like a table, a chair. It never will grow again. It is whatever it is. That’s it. There is no growth in it. It might fully one
day die. That material will merge with the soil. The earth one day. That is sure because there is no sensation
of feeling, joy, happiness, or kind of any emotions. Nothing. Because those symptoms we don’t find in that furniture anymore. Or in that rock, which is out of the mind.
Or the dead tree, which is already dead. But the tree will grow, that means there is a
soul. And somebody tried to ask tirthankara Mahavira… “How you prove the soul exist?” And there
was a king. His name was Pradeshi. It is not like a new question. This question is very old
question. And it is asked again and again and again. So Pradeshi, king, he wanted to prove soul exist. So he said,
“Who is dying now, I will put into the glass boundary”. He made a room like fully glass. And then, “We will keep an eye what
is reaction.” And then they closed that person who is close to the death. So they put it there, and after a while, after one hour, they
went there. Person is dead and they didn’t see any symptoms. Sometimes glass doesn’t break even. Soul can pass
through the glass because glass has space. That’s why the light comes in. If glass
doesn’t have space the light even cannot come. That’s what Mahavira said to him. “Hey, soul’s particles are so subtlest. Sometimes it can
happen the glass will break, but it is not necessary. It can pass through”. It is not a blockage. It is not a barrier. It is
not a hindrance. It will pass through because everything has a space. Like the wood. Wood has space. If wood doesn’t have space, fire will not enter
into it. And if fire will not enter into it, it will not burn. So that is very difficult to prove those things. But that is many
people tried in the past. They try to, but they don’t understand. The soul’s particles are so invisible. They are subtler than light.
And then subtler than any other particles of this universe. And they can pass through anything. Because everything has space. Everything has space. That is why the
soul’s existence cannot be proved by logic. And people ask. Logic doesn’t work on
the soul. Logic works maybe scientifically. When they say scientifically, those logics are already a lie. What scientists
do; things exist and they just have to prove it exists. Nothing else. So they are giving their own
logics. They make a theory about it. And that theory cannot be true even. They just think about, “This
apple is sweet”. They already decided the apple is sweet. Now they have to prove it. And they go around and
around and around. They give comparative study. This, that. That is their theory. That is their logic. But
the logic doesn’t apply on the real thing. The substance, soul substance, is totally different. Soul is invisible.
When it is invisible, it cannot be proved by the scientist. Nowadays people are trying to prove the God’s particle.
Hey, first prove the soul’s particle. At least if you can see those particles and those are not visible even.
So if you cannot prove the soul’s particle, how you can the God’s particle? And people are in the dark again. They try. “Oh, we
saw the God’s particle. We saw the God’s particle”. How can you see the God’s particle? Sometime people…because God’s particle also invisible. How you will see it? How you are going to
prove it? So it is very difficult. Give logic, it won’t work. That’s why Indian mythology and the coming all
these philosophy of Indian, they try to say that God is beyond logic. Soul is beyond logic. So if you cannot prove the existence of
God, same way you cannot prove by logic existence of soul. But if you go deep down and look at yourself and you sit and
you go deep and deeper and deeper, you might have intuitive power. When you have intuition and whatever you see in intuition and
it becomes true, so how it is becoming true? Like I will ask you, “You exist?”
That is…what kind of question is that? You exist. You are visible. You have a body. You
have senses. You have a mind. You exist. I can touch you, I can feel you,
I can prove you that you exist. Your mere existence proves already that there are something in your body
which knows. The best symptoms of the soul is knowing. It has knowing power. It has infinite knowing power. And you can…you can once your original source is
opened, your knowing comes directly from the soul. And that’s what we need to understand that the existence of soul will
work even when you reach the original source of the soul. And original source of the soul is knowing.
The knowing factor everyone has it. Even instinctively they know it — the animals. But, on
the other hand, the human, they lost their instinct power. But instinctively even ants know there will be a big storm.
Bees know there will be a big earthquake. But how they know it? Instinctively. And humans lost that instinct. Instinct coming directly from the knowing. Direct from the soul. Not other way around. The scientists will never have instinct power. Why? Because they are lost into the logic. And when they are lost into
the logic it is very difficult to prove the existence of soul. Even you exist, you are asking, “Do I exist?”
What kind of question is that? You exist. That’s enough. And that already proves that you exist. Because you are existing. You are talking…how you are talking?
You say, “Oh, I am just a body”. Hey, when you die, when soul is out from your body,
your body still exists. Why it doesn’t talk? Why it doesn’t eat? Why it doesn’t smell?
Why it doesn’t hear? Why it doesn’t see? It means the soul is gone. Some substance is out
of this body. That’s what we call death. Death of the body, and soul is gone.
That’s what we need to understand by realization. Unless you realized your soul. And your soul has
to be realized through the inner journey. And you have to start inner journey. Innery journey is backward. It is not a forward journey. You have to go inside of you.
That what is inside of me which knows? Which feels? Which has sensation, which has happiness, which has pain, suffering. So you need to discover that. But it can be discovered
not by logic. It has to be discovered by meditation. By realization. By experiences. And that’s what I
tell people. Be on the spiritual path. Why people are not finding the soul existence? Because they are religious-minded. And the religious-minded are in the small box. In the small box, they don’t have the
vision to open up the soul or they don’t have that vision to awaken the soul. That’s what I call, spirituality is when you become open-minded. When you become open-minded, it means you are totally relaxed. You’re not resisting. But if you are in some kind of religious
box, you will resist other point of view. You just prove your point of view. The religious
people are fighters. Why they are fighters? Because they think their point of view is the right.
All the other point of views are wrong. That’s why it is a problem with religious people, but spirituality is totally different. Spirituality is natural. What is natural? That you enjoy the
nature. You enjoy the ocean. You enjoy the stars. Everything exists, it is flowing. We are
all flowing together. We don’t resist. Spirituality is like a white cloud moving in the sky. The wind come
from the east, white cloud doesn’t have resistance to move to the west. It’s very simple. Spirituality is like a bird. It’s fully free.
It can fly anytime in the sky. No boundaries. Where there is boundary there is no spirituality. Spirituality is boundariless. Spirituality is…I can give thousands of example, but I’m not giving here thousands. I will give you…religions are like a wall. They keep dividing people. Like churches even. They are not even
one. They keep dividing the humanity. That, “Hey, my church is better than other church”.
“My temple is better than other temple”. So they keep dividing us. That is called…religions work
like a wall. And a wall divides. You put in one room one more wall, it becomes
two. So religions are moving in duality. In duality is an illusion. Duality is an illusion. And you’re never going to come out of illusion.
How you will find out who you are, then? You will move in illusion. You always go into the hallucination, illusion, ignorance. You are not going to come out of it
because religions are like a cocoon. A cocoon. You’re just happy in your own cocoon.
You don’t want to find out further. And I will tell you, the psychologists, they say that day will be
the most worst day on this earth when a person becomes satisfied. Because when a person becomes satisfied, their search is fully diminished. They don’t search further. That’s why in the small box, like in the small
cocoon, somebody get trapped into it and they think that is the only world. It is like one time from the ocean he lived
from the big gulf — that was a frog. And somehow he got lost and he’s jumping here and there. He fell down into the well. And
well is deep, he cannot come out. He met another frog there. It always lived in the well. And first they were enemies, fighting. And after that they became friends. Then the well-frog asked him, “Hey, is there
any world bigger than this?” “In this, where I live?” The frog who came out from the outside like from the ocean kind of,
and he said, “This well? This is nothing! This is like a tiny drop of it. You didn’t see it!” Then he moved around 3 times, 4 times
in the circle. “A bigger world than this!?” “It’s nothing. How can I prove you that there is
a bigger world there somewhere?” And he tried. “Hey, I am like moving 7 times, 10
times. I don’t think it is bigger than this world!” The religious people are like a well-frog.
They think that is the only thing. And that is the only world where they move.
Cocoon is the only world for them. Box is the only world for them. They are
not spiritual, they are not open-minded. Yet. Open-minded means you become not like a
wall. You’re not in the cocoon. You’re not in the box. You’re free like
a bird. You become like a bridge. Bridge is a uniting force. And then that uniting force will unite you
with the bodies, your senses, with the mind, and with the soul. That’s what it is. The spirituality works like a bridge. Uniting force. Religion works like a wall. Dividing force. Choice is yours. What you want to do? You want to follow spirituality? Go beyond the logics. You have to realize. Go
deep into the meditation. That is your real freedom. You’re not free yet. You have freedom of
speech, you think you are enjoying the democracy. That is no the real democracy, the real freedom. Real freedom
is when you are not out of this cocoon, boxes. And you become free, relaxed fully. No resistance. No logic. You just go deep down and you will find yourself there. Then you will soul exists. You exist. Spirituality makes you very peaceful and relaxed and makes you…just expands you. Every day. Jai Siddhatma.