EWTN Bookmark – 2016-05-15 – St. Faustina Prayer Book For The Holy Souls In Purgatory

EWTN Bookmark – 2016-05-15 – St. Faustina Prayer Book For The Holy Souls In Purgatory


[♪] Doug: And welcome once again to EWTN’s “Bookmark.” I’m Doug Keck, your host. Our guest is a good friend, Susan Tassone, author of “St. Faustina Prayer Book For The Holy Souls In Purgatory,” available from the “EWTN Religious Catalogue,” on ewtnrc.com. Great to see you again. Susan: Nice to be back. Doug: Yeah. Yeah. You were on with Fr. Mitch a while back.. Susan: Yes. Doug: ..talking about the, “The Holy Souls, and St. Faustina.” Here we are in this, in this year, Jubilee Year of Mercy, of course, and so, all of these Faustina, Mercy book kind of things are coming out, which is wonderful, because, St. Faustina is really the saint of this age. Susan: Yeah, right. Doug: In many, many ways. Susan: Apostle of mercy. Doug: Exactly. Susan: And apostle of purgatory. Doug: And, and so, let me ask you; because, you’ve, you’ve been the apostle of purgatory in some ways, certainly in these, on EWTN, you have, and you’ve written so many books on it, and given comfort to so many people, and the books are, we know it’s giving comfort, ’cause, the books are so popular, and, and especially.. Susan: Thanks to your network. Doug: ..and, and writing about a topic that, for a while there, kind of got lost in the sauce after Vatican II. So, how did you put together, you know, a book about St. Faustina, a prayer book, and tie that into the holy souls? Was that, was that a stretch and you were.. Susan: Yeah. Doug: ..trying to figure out how to connect those things? Susan: Yeah. Doug: Or, was it a natural connection in your mind? Susan: It was a natural connection, Doug. You know, that God has impressed on all His great saints, there’s not one saint that He hasn’t impressed on them to pray for the souls in purgatory; Padre Pio, St. Gertrude the Great, Catherine of Genoa, Nicholas of Tolentino, and Faustina. All of them had this tender devotion for the souls in purgatory. Either they had apparitions, revelations, writings. So, she was a perfect match. She wrote about the souls. She had insights about the souls, and, you know, being the purgatory lady, I was clearly attracted to it. I had thought about doing something on Faustina back, as far back as 2006, Doug. It was always in my mind, because, of the writings in the diary. But, other books were coming along, and, and the time; this is just total providence. This was not planned for the Jubilee Year. Doug: No. Okay. Susan: It was something, you know, it has been on my mind. And so, when we were putting this together, the proposal, Pope Francis, you know, declared it the Jubilee Year, and we were just stunned. ‘Cause, we attributed it to God’s providence, as well. But, it was her devotion to the souls that attracted me to her. Doug: And who’s we, when you talk about the “we” came up with this or “we?” Susan: “Our Sunday Visitor.” Doug: Okay. Susan: Yeah, my editors. Burt Ghezzi is.. Doug: Okay, sure. Susan: ..is, is, is.. Doug: Oh, Burt, okay. Great. Susan: ..is my, is my, is my Chief Editor. Doug: Okay. Susan: It’s a great team. So, it was on my mind, and, and the timing was perfect. The other thing I discovered, Doug, is that, St. Faustina is the most Googled saint on the Internet. Doug: Really? Susan: I learned. Yes. Doug: Okay. Susan: I also learned that Catholic marketing statistics said that St. Faustina is the most in demand with regard to books, statues, medals in the last two years, 2014 and 2015. So, here we have her being #1 on “Google,” leading “Amazon,” and there’s no books about her insight and, and revelations on purgatory. So, so, now, we have something most comprehensive that we’re able to, you know, invite people to join her, to pray this important devotion that was very dear to her, as well. Doug: Right, and it’s interesting. So, did you discover that because of your own personal reading of the diary, or were there other sources you relied on? How did it really come to your attention.. Susan: It was.. Doug: That there was that real strong connection? Susan: ..it was the personal, it was the personal reading of the diary. I had picked up that diary back in the ’80’s. Now, purgatory didn’t come into the forefront with me until, until, until the ’90’s, the early ’90s. But, I had read the diary. But, I, I read the diary off and on all the time. So, when I was involved with purgatory, those revelations and visits and discussions that she had with purgatory were in the diary. So, that jumped out at me. Doug: Which is great, ’cause, you feature those in this book, and this is the kind of thing, I think in terms of reading the diary, that the diary’s so large, there’s so much in it that in some cases, you just breeze past. Susan: Yes. Doug: This, and now to read these specifically, in dealing with holy souls, sisters who had died coming back.. Susan: Exactly. Doug: ..you have some wonderful.. Susan: Excellent, yeah. Doug: ..Passage she talks about where she was disappointed, it didn’t seem her prayers, and, and even the congregation’s prayers were helping the sister. Susan: Right, right. Doug: But, she persisted anyway, and then, later on, that sister came back and said that her time in purgatory was almost up, thanks to.. Susan: Thanks. Doug: ..their prayers or her prayers. Susan: Thanks to their prayers and her love of neighbor, her love of neighbor. Doug: Why love of neighbor? What does that mean? Susan: Because, that, that’s the, that’s what we’re all called to do. In fact, you know, that’s the, the, one of the, two essences of Divine Mercy is to trust in Jesus and to be merciful to your neighbor, and, and, and Jesus said this to her, “Unquestionably, if you want to know if you love God, unquestionably it’s showing mercy either by word, by deed, or by prayer.” That’s, that’s when you can say you love God. And so, you know, of course, that’s love of neighbor. “Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.” Doug: Right, and that came out also because I think, as you explain in the book, the idea that even though she felt, Faustina felt as if it wasn’t helping, she continued anyway. Susan: She continued. She persisted. Doug: Because of that kind of love of neighbor. Susan: Exactly. Doug: Even if I can’t see the fruits of it right away. Susan: Very good. Doug: It doesn’t matter. That doing it is the right thing for me to do. Right? Susan: You’d be a great co-author, Doug. Doug: Right, okay. Susan: Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s, you nailed it. Very interesting, you bring up the, the, the revelations and the insights, because, right in the beginning of the book, I pulled together all of those insights, the conversations she had with the souls and what they said to her, and it, and it came out into, we called it “Purgatory In The Eyes of St. Faustina.” And, it came out to 12, we called them meditations. But, they were 12 of her revelations. And, it was very interesting, Doug, what they said to her and what they requested. First of all, they told her; she asked them if they were happy. And they said, they were happy because they were doing God’s Will. Do God’s Will, and that’s what gave them joy, in purgatory. So, even though they’re suffering, they are happy because they’re saved and because they’re in union with God’s Will. And they said to her, “Do God’s Will.” It’s Mother Angelica’s mantra, “Do God’s Will in the present moment.” Doug: Right, right, right. Susan: In fact, Mother Angelica taught me this, again, when I was, you know, in the school of purgatory that, to avoid purgatory, what’s the main way to avoid purgatory? Is doing the Will of God. Doug: It struck me in reading those passages and, and thinking in terms of the holy souls in a sense, because, sometimes people hear it and they say, “Well, they’re suffering, but, they’re happy. That sounds kind of contradictory.” But, the idea of, in some cases, and again, I mean, they’re in a sense, asking us to say, do God’s Will while you can, because, when you get to purgatory, or if you’re in purgatory, that’s where you realize, I could have done more. Susan: Yes. Doug: I should have done more. And I remember Mother Angelica, one of her quotes she said, one of the things that she most was concerned about was that when she died, she went there and heard, “You could have trusted more.” Susan: Yeah, yeah. Doug: “You could have done more.” Susan: Yeah, yeah. Could have, would have, should have. Doug: You know, and I think maybe that’s where that whole “Jesus, I trust in You”.. Susan: Right, right. Doug: ..ties into. Susan: Exactly. Doug: Right? Susan: Exactly. So, so they, they, they, that’s, that’s a theme, main theme throughout the whole diary is, her prayers, her meditations is always God’s Will. The other thing that, that they, she asked them is, you know, what their greatest suffering was? And in unison, they said, “Longing for God.” So, so, purgatory is standing before God, seeing Him in all His glory, seeing the, you know, the, the loveableness and the depth of love that He has for you, and also, seeing what you’re talking about, the grace and the strength that He gave you to fulfill your mission and where you fell short is really, yeah, is really kind of what, what gets you, gets you into purgatory. Doug: Right. Susan: So, so, it was, it was doing the Will of God, longing for God, because, they saw Him, and now, they’re unable to be with Him, which is, the saints say, is the worst suffering, physical, any kind of physical or mental suffering on earth. That’s the worst, because, you saw Him, and you’re unable to be with Him. Doug: Right. Susan: So, that’s their greatest longing, and the other was what you had mentioned before. You picked up on this, Doug. I noticed the pattern with the 12 meditations. The most souls that visited her were the sisters of her own order, those deceased sisters and they asked her for specific things. They asked her for the Mass, which, of course, is the, is the, the highest act of worship, the highest form of prayer, and that’s the most powerful way to help the souls in purgatory, is the Mass. Then, they asked her for fasting. Doug: Would that be going to Mass, having a Mass said for them? Susan: Yes. For her, it would be definitely offering her Mass, offering her Mass. For us, we could offer our Mass. Doug: Right, I see. Susan: Offer our indulgence. But, we have the opportunity, financial opportunity to have a Mass offered. Doug: Offered as well. Susan: With a stipend. Doug: And there’s another kind of Mass, too. There’s already.. Susan: Gregorian Masses. Doug: Right, right. Susan: Doug, there’s; I’ll be saying “Gregorian Masses” until I die. There are 30 Masses in a row for one deceased soul. Pope St. Gregory popularized this devotion. He had 30 Masses offered for a monk in his monastery called Justin. Why 30? Why not 50 or 60? He was bringing back the tradition of the “Old Testament.” They mourned Moses and Jacob. Aaron would mourn for 30 days. Doug: Oh, okay, alright. Susan: So, that’s where this tradition.. Doug: That’s where that comes from. Okay. Susan: ..that’s where it comes from. And we, we recommend this at EWTN, very supportive of the ‘Pious Union of St. Joseph’.. Doug: Right, right. Susan: ..that have these Gregorian Masses available. I think it’s pusj.org. They do a wonderful job. So, yes, so, offer your Mass, have Masses offered, or Gregorian Masses. Put them in your will. Cardinal George had those Masses in his will. Doug: Right. Susan: And then the third thing that these, the nuns were asking for her, asking of her was the “Eternal Rest Prayer.” And I was trying to figure out what, what that was. Why, why that particular prayer? Well, it’s a prayer of the Church for the dead, it’s what they say at wakes, the priest prays at wakes, also at the grave site. And it’s, it’s, it’s an indulgence prayer where it helps remit temporal punishment, you know. An indulgence is when, you receive an indulgence, you go to confession, the stain is removed, I mean, the guilt is removed. Doug: Removed, right. Susan: But, the stain is still there. Doug: Right. Susan: How do you remove the stain? The, you know, the word “indulgence” comes from the Latin indulgentia, which means tender. God is indulging. It’s, you know, the fruits of, of, of Our Lord’s suffering, of His Crucifixion, of His death. It’s the merits that we’re gaining and these indulgences help to remit that, and it’s a Jubilee Year. We have special indulgence. Divine Mercy Sunday we gain a special indulgence. So, I’d say, get greedy for indulgences. Doug: Okay. Susan: Because, they’ve been given a bad rap. St. Joseph Cafasso was called “The Glutton for Indulgences.” It’s not a bad thing. It’s very positive part of our faith, and we need, as Pope Francis talked about, ‘Take advantage of.. Doug: Right. Susan: ..the indulgences.’ Doug: And I think if people go to ewtn.com, there’s some information on.. Susan: Oh, yes. Doug: .. our faith page that would explain the whole indulgences.. Susan: And the requirements. Doug: ..how it works for this year, etc. Right. Susan: You do, you do a very good job of that. Yes. Doug: Well, we want to make sure people understand. So. Susan: I try to keep, yeah; the, in the, in all my books I try to have the prayers that are indulgence, that, that can help, you know, with the souls. Doug: Well, right in the beginning, you’ve got, “Most Rev. Thomas J. Paprocki, Bishop of Springfield in Illinois, who wrote a book on ice hockey, in fact. Susan: Oh, that’s right. Yeah, he’s a great runner too. Doug: Yeah, he, he pointed out this one; “Pope Francis invited the Church to reflect on the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, seeing them by the standard by which we live as disciples of the Lord.” Is, that seems to be important in here as well, right? Susan: Yes. It was interesting. Again, we weren’t tying it in with, with Pope Francis’ Jubilee Year. It was just a great, you know, he’s talking about, about that, and then, the reason I brought those in, Doug, I found out that Sr. Faustina’s Order, that’s part of their apostolate is to, is to, you know, to work, you know, with, you know, to, to, to strive, to perform the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, and so, we put those in there; and what we did differently with those works, Doug, we turned it into an examination of conscience, in light of Divine Mercy. So, now, you’ve got a new, new form of examination of conscience that you could say at night to help you, you know, stay in your lane, and, you know, and, and perform these great works. There’s two of them that, you know, of course, that are important to me that I think sometimes get, gets overlooked, burying the dead. In fact, there’s a person in Chicago that saves money up and has been doing this for years, and brings it to the cemetery, and donates it for those that can’t afford. Doug: For indigents. Susan: Yes. Doug: People kind of like the potters field kind of thing.. Susan: Exactly, exactly. Doug: ..used to be. Right, okay. Susan: And then, of course, the spiritual work of mercy, we have praying for the living and the deceased. So, so, that’s something again, you know, not to leave off, you know, our deceased loved ones. They need a share of, of our indulgences. Christmas is the time when most souls are released from purgatory. Easter is the next greatest season. During Lent, it’s perfect time to invite, you know, the souls and, and as part of your sacrifice. Give them a share of your mercy. Give them a share of your sacrifices, even of your joys so they, too, can rise at Easter with Our Lord. Doug: Right, it’s interesting, ’cause, you, you eluded earlier about Cardinal George having the Gregorian Masses.. Susan: Yes. Doug: ..in his; and people need to realize that as much as all of us might think that Cardinal George, well, he must have, he was a great man, he was, he must have went directly to Heaven. Susan: Yeah. Doug: No one really knows, and sometimes we sanctify everybody.. Susan: You. Doug: ..on the way out the door. Susan: Yes, yes. Doug: And, we shouldn’t take for granted that anybody is particularly there, because, as you point out here in the book, I thought as well, is that many of those in purgatory are those clerical or other people, because, they were given more graces, and, in a sense, to do more things. Susan: You.. absolutely. Doug: And so, they were held to a higher standard, right? So. Susan: Absolutely. You nailed it, Doug. In fact, Faustina calls them “The Chosen Souls,” and that how we leave off too soon praying for them because we tend to canonize them, and she said in the Diary, and again, everything we’re talking about is in the new book. She said that. Doug: Right. Susan: That, they really, they really need our prayers, because, they were given extraordinary graces and are going to be held accountable, more accountable.. Doug: Right. Susan: ..than you or I. Doug: Right. Susan: So, it’s important to have a Mass offered for the priest that baptized your children or you. Doug: Okay. Susan: Or, the bishop that confirmed you or your children, or the priest that hear your confessions, give you Communion, offer Mass. So, we really need to pray for them. And she talks about that in Her “Diary,” and, of course, we bring that in here because, I consider the, the priests and the clergy some of the most abandoned souls because of that very reason. Doug: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Now, what does, you have in here, “It’s a Litany of Mercy for the Holy Souls in Purgatory.” Now, is this out of the “Diary” or where, where did this come from? Susan: This was something, we have “Litanies” in, in, in all, quite a few different “Litanies” in our, in our other books; “Praying With The Saints” and “Prayers, Promises, and Devotions,” and, and we wanted to do something more contemporary and in line with Faustina. Doug: Okay. Susan: So, so, it’s something new, and different. Doug: Okay. So, this was something; who actually wrote this then? Susan: Me and my, my editors put it together. Doug: Put that together. Susan: Yeah. Doug: Okay. Susan: Yeah, yeah. Doug: Now, you’ve got here, and as you, you talked about “Purgatory In The Eyes of St. Faustina: 12 Daily Meditations,” you were talking about that a little bit earlier. Susan: Right. Yeah. Doug: “Recall loved ones who have died and in a spirit of true charity, keep in mind other departed souls who have no one on earth to pray for them. Reflect on the reality of purgatory and those who, those so close to Heaven must still prepare to enter it and pray for them.” And again, that was one of the things you also talk about, and we talked about before, is the idea that, part of it is that a lot of people don’t believe in purgatory anymore. We don’t hear, and you talk about in the kind of frequently asked questions in the back. Susan: Right. Doug: You know, ‘Why don’t we hear about it that much anymore? Why isn’t it we hear about it preached?’ Susan: Yeah. It wasn’t; actually, we actually answer that. Doug: In the back of the book. Susan: Yeah, we answer those questions. Doug: Right, right. Susan: It was, you know, that was a time back in the, in the ’70s where it, it, it became, it was not fashionable to teach in the seminaries. So, what happens when you don’t teach it in the seminaries, you’re going to get priests that are not, you know, preaching the doctrine, and then, that ends up with, you know, the faithful not hearing, you know, the facts and the truth about faith, about sin, about grace, and about purgatory. But, that’s, that’s coming around in a big way. We’ve got, it’s become part of, you know, very strong part of the seminary, its curriculum, if you will. Doug: Right. Susan: And priests, John Paul II priests, home-schoolers. People want to know more about purgatory. In fact, “Our Sunday Visitor” did a study, and that was the most often asked question. They wanted more information about purgatory. Doug: Right, exactly, cause, it can be sometimes confusing. People say, and we talk, “Is it a place or is it a state?” Susan: Yeah. Doug: And I know you use a quote from John Paul II. Susan: John Paul’s ‘a state’ Yeah. Doug: About a state of existence. So, people are kind of trying to figure out; and also, in some sense, the idea is, is, purgatory the room right outside of hell or is it the room right outside of Heaven? [laughs] Susan: It’s, [laughs] you’re saved if you’re in purgatory. Doug: Right. So, it’s a room right outside of Heaven. Susan: Yes. Doug: Right? Susan: You’re saved, Doug. It’s. Doug: It’s a waiting room for Heaven. It’s not the anti. [laughs] Susan: Yeah, it’s a little emergency room. Doug: Right. Right. Susan: And, you know, and that’s a good point, because, people think; and nowhere in the books will you find this. People think it’s a punishment. Purgatory is not a punishment. It’s God’s love and it’s, and it’s His mercy. And punishment can only be used, in a sense, Doug, that it’s, it’s going to be spiritually and psychologically demanding as any virtue is. You know, God is not trying to lower the boom. He’s not trying to pull the rug out from under you. He’s not trying to say, ‘You failed Me completely.’ He’s trying to prepare His unprepared children to be able to stand before Him face-to-face for all eternity. And what is it? Well, you know, He gave, Jesus gave Faustina light in terms of His, what His attributes are. And His, there’s three great attributes of God, Doug. The first is His holiness. And Faustina said, “He’s so Holy that the virtues and the principalities, which are the choirs of angels, tremble before Him. And the pure spirits are veiled and cry out, “Holy, Holy, Holy.” Well, who can say that they’re pure enough to stand before our Pure and Holy God? Doug: Right, exactly. Susan: Okay. Yes, you can avoid purgatory, doing the Will of God. That’s the great saints in all things. So, yes, you can go straight to Heaven. But, who can say that you’re totally pure? We don’t know that. And the, the next greatest attribute you talked about was His justice, that, He, His justice, she said, “Cuts right to the heart and nothing can withstand Him.” And the third, and the greatest attribute of all He said, is “His love and His mercy.” And that’s the, the attribute she wanted to emulate. She wanted to, to take into her heart and, and imitate. And what was interesting, it wasn’t infused in her. She was, God invited her into the school of mercy, where He invites us. And so, how did she, how did she become merciful, Doug? I thought it would be scientific and something that I couldn’t get my arms around. No. It was the sacraments, it was the devotional life, it was the rosary, it was showing mercy, and, and love of neighbor. And, in fact, she said that, “It was the sacrament of reconciliation and Communion that deepened her mercy.” So, those acts literally open your heart wide to become more merciful. Doug: Now, you eluded earlier, you talked about, with St. Faustina, with the holy souls answering one voice, their greatest torment was longing for God. In that same section, she also says, “I saw Our Lady visiting the souls in purgatory. The souls call her.. Susan: Yeah. Doug: ‘The Star of the Sea.’ She brings them refreshment.” Susan: Yes. You know, Doug, that was very interesting. I was, I, I, I researched why they call Her ‘Star of the Sea,’ and I, right toward the end of the book, I finally was able to get some information. It was; but, this is the, it’s one of Her titles, “Star of the Sea.” Doug: Right. Susan: Also, “The North Star Polaris” is fixed, is a fixed star that navigators have used since antiquity, and She is the guide, they call Her “The Steering Star.” She spiritually steers our way to Her Son. So, that’s why She’s called “Star of the Sea.” Refreshment is Her presence and Her consolation when She visits the souls in purgatory. She brings the light of God to them, and Her presence actually relieves them from the longing. Doug: You have in the reflection here, in the book here it says, after that, just after that section, “The angels are active in purgatory.” Susan: Oh yes, yes. Doug: “Consoling the holy souls and inspiring friends and relatives to offer a Mass and practice good deeds for their dearly departed, as corporal works of mercy, etc. The angels tell us, those in purgatory who on earth is praying for them.” I thought that was interesting. Susan: Yes, yes, yes. You know, the angels provide more than transportation to purgatory, Doug. They console the souls in purgatory. They inspire loved ones and friends to pray for them. You know, when you hear a name or some name, something comes up in your heart, you know, in the past, a person in the past that has died, that’s, that’s your guardian angel telling you to pray for them. So, they console the holy souls. Doug: Maybe somebody you haven’t thought about in a long time. Susan: Exactly. Doug: Right. Susan: Exactly. Doug: Right. Susan: That’s the, that’s them; you know, say, say an “Eternal rest” pray for them. Offer Mass, and then; so, they console, they inspire, and they do inform the souls of who’s praying for them. And then, in turn, those souls pray for that person. They’re particularly concerned about their loved ones. So, they’re praying for their loved ones, for their salvation, and they’re praying to the Holy Spirit to give their loved ones the grace to avoid purgatory, and to understand the malice of sin, and to become holy. Doug: Well, you say here, “Moved by contrition; the souls in purgatory would rather not go to Heaven than stand before God without their wedding garments.” And that’s really what you were talking about. I mean, really. You think about it in the “Old Testament” not looking into the face of God. Susan: Right. Doug: That idea, even in “Revelation” where John is, you know, knocked down basically. Susan: Yeah. Doug: I mean, so, you say to yourself, ‘Well, if that’s what happens to someone as holy as him, how would you stand up,’ right? Susan: Yes, yes, yeah. Doug: Right. Susan: It’s, you know, you just, just, just do the Will of God. Try to do the Will of God in all things, frequent the sacraments, pray the rosary, all the devotional… Of course, and then, you know, love of God and neighbor is the, is the great thing, to be merciful, because, that mercy is going to get you to Heaven. Doug: Well, one of the things you say here, too, is when talking about “Mercy,” one of the things here, it says, “Bear wrongs patiently.” Susan: Mm-hmm. Doug: That’s always a tough one. Susan: That’s, that’s a tough one. Exactly. Doug: Right. Susan: It’s not easy. Doug: Right. Susan: They’re easy to say, and they’re easy to understand. But, to implement, on a daily basis, you know that. Doug: Right, especially when you’re dealing with something where you, you’re, in effect you’re justified. It’s not that you’re wrong. Susan: Yes, right. Doug: You were wronged. Susan: Right. Doug: And to some degree you have the right to be offended by that. But, you need to be, you need to let it go. Susan: Yes. It, you know, the, Fr. Mitch brought this up on, on one of the shows, is that, ‘When you pray for that person, that dilutes the impact of the pain.’ Doug: It’s hard to be that angry at them if you’re praying for them. Susan: Exactly. Doug: Right? Susan: Exactly. Doug: Right, right. Susan: I mean, it doesn’t, I mean, there are things you need; you know, correct. You know, use your common sense. But, the prayer does help you redirect your, your thoughts and your will. Doug: Right. You also say here under “Forgive All Injuries;” “Do I hate to give up long held grudges, because, in some way they give me comfort?” Susan: Yeah. [laughs] Doug: You know what I mean? Susan: Yes. It’s like comfortably miserable. Doug: That’s right. Susan: Yeah. Doug: Yeah. Well, it allows me to feel bad for myself. Susan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doug: And. Susan: Yeah. Doug: Gives me something to complain about. Susan: Yeah. Doug: And sometimes it’s also a good reason for me to have an excuse of why something isn’t working out in my life. Susan: Yeah. Doug: In some other way, right? Susan: In, in fact, it’s like, it’s interesting. It’s, it’s, it’s something, it’s, it deforms you really, Doug. You know, let; if you let go and let God, He’ll transform that, and He makes good out of those injustices, you know. I try to remember that. You, you do the best you can. Then, let go, because, you know, there’s poetic justice, and He’ll take care of that, and I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it in my life. Doug: Right. Susan: I’ve seen it happen many times. Especially working, when I was in the corporate world, you see a lot happening.. Doug: Right. Susan: ..in the secular world and you, you know, you do a lot of praying, and do the best you can. Doug: Right. Susan: And then, maybe it might happen, you know, currently. But, down the road, you know. Doug: Yeah. Right. Susan: You’ll see God’s hand in it. Doug: Right. And many times you’ll see situations, as we know, where we see people who might be perceived as doing the wrong thing, etc., seemingly being happy and successful and stuff. Many times, like you said, as the Church knows, over a long period of time is how you judge things. Susan: Mm-hmm. Doug: You know, and, and see where that person ends up 15, 20, 30 years later. Susan: Yeah, yeah. Doug: As to whether; and no one knows what’s really going on inside. Susan: Right. Exactly. You have to pray for them, because, you can’t, that; Jesus talks about that, “Don’t judge. Do not judge.” Doug: Right. Just by what, the outside especially. Susan: Yeah. Just, you know, just pray. Doug: So, let me ask you one question before we go, ’cause, we’re out of time; is another book in the works? Susan: We haven’t emptied purgatory yet, Doug. Doug: Okay. So, there’s.. Susan: So, so we’re.. Doug: ..got to be another one. Susan: There’s, there’s; yeah, we’re looking at some other things and, and some new discoveries. Doug: Okay. Susan: We have a new discovery about purgatory. We found that it’s gluten free, Doug. [laughs] Doug: Oh, it’s gluten free. Okay, that’s very interesting. So, at least this week. Thank you so much, Susan Tassone. Susan: Good to see you again. Thanks for having me. Doug: For our, our dietary approach to making it through purgatory. We’re speaking here with Susan Tassone, her book, St. Faustina Prayer Book For The Holy Souls In Purgatory,” published by “OSV,” available at the “EWTN Religious Catalogue,” ewtnrc.com. These books are always popular. Check it out. Check us out next time right here on “Bookmark.” [♪]

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