Destiny 2 Lore Is Saint-14 Really Dead? | Myelin Games

Destiny 2 Lore Is Saint-14 Really Dead? | Myelin Games

Prophecies are tricky things: they change
the future they foretell. When a seer shares their knowledge of a coming
event—any event, whether good or ill—there will always be those who gather to prevent
it. Welcome back guardians. As most of you are now aware, you can receive
the Saint-14 quest line from Brother Vance by collecting the Lost Prophecy, Another Verse. This starts a world quest, Legends Lost, that
has you track Saint-14 into the Infinite Forest and on completion of the mission you receive
Saint-14’s shotgun, a perfect paradox. I made a previous video about Saint-14 before
this quest was available, as now that we have access to the mission and the room where Saint-14
can be found, I want to explore whether the Saint-14 we see in the mission, is the real
Saint-14 or a simulation. There is no real answer to this question,
but I thought that it was well worth covering the mission because of how much time is required
to access it and as it does include more lore about Saint-14. A Prime example of this is Saint-14 is confirmed
as the First Vanguard commander by Brother Vance. Brother Vance: Its him isn’t. The first Vanguard Commander! The one who made the great Osiris leader of
the Warlocks. Saint-14! He could join us here in the Lighthouse. Fight alongside you and Osiris. Turn the tide against the Vex for good. Can you imagine? You found Osiris; you can find Saint-14. He’s got to be in the Infinite Forest. With him by our side, we could succeed where
Osiris failed! A big thank you to Soul Reaver for recording
the Saint-14 mission. Also I will put the whole transcript of the
mission if you want to read it for yourself. The artwork at the beginning of this video
is provided by Gammatrap. All Patreon donations go towards paying for
the artwork, a link will be in the description. This is myelin games and I hope you enjoy
this latest Destiny 2 lore episode. [INTRO]
It is important to note that there is no real conclusion to this mission about Saint-14,
there is evidence both for and against, this being the real Saint-14. In fact, Sagira, Osiris’s ghost poses the
exact same question at the beginning of the Saint-14 mission,
Ghost: The signal’s getting stronger. I should be able to find the source, but there’s
some kind of interference. Sagira: Signals tend to overlap, get mixed
up with simulations… It can be hard to find what’s real and what’s
not in there. Sigira implies that it is difficult to determine
what is real and not real in a Vex simulation, obviously this was a question shared by many
players when they discovered Saint-14’s body. So my starting point to try and better understand
the Saint-14 mission was to first transcribe the entire Saint-14 World Quest, Legends Lost,
but also to transcribe the campaign missions from Curse of Osiris and also collate all
of the Lost Prophecies. The reason for looking back into the campaign
and the lost prophecies is that Saint-14’s story is intertwined in the Dark Future of
the Vex and the Lost Prophecy, Another Verse. Having a better understanding of the Infinite
Forest that leads to the Dark Future, as well as many other futures, and understanding Osiris’s
prophecies may hold some clues for Saint-14’s story. The Saint-14 quest starts with the Lost Prophecy,
Another Verse, but what exactly are the Lost Prophecies. Well, essentially, Osiris went into the Infinite
Forest and saw the future, these visions became the Lost Prophecies which were upheld by the
Cult of Osiris. The Vex forge sword, Future Safe 10, item
description reads, A fragment from Osiris
Prophecies are tricky things: they change the future they foretell. When a seer shares their knowledge of a coming
event—any event, whether good or ill—there will always be those who gather to prevent
it. Say too little and your meaning is lost. Say too much and you have made the task of
your enemies easier. You must say just enough so that the few who
can listen will hear. Osiris is explaining how informing someone
of the future, in itself could change the future, hence the Prophecies are often very
cryptic, only sharing just enough informatin. Now it seems that Osiris predicted a number
of things that were put into the Lost Prophecies, specifically Ghaul, the Traveler’s awakening
and also Ghaul’s defeat. This is told to us in the Infinite Forge sidearm,
Traveler’s judgement 5 item description, it reads,
How to interpret the Lost Prophecies? The theory in vogue right now with the Followers
of Osiris is that the first five verses refer to the Black Garden, the coming of Ghaul,
the Traveler’s awakening and Ghaul’s subsequent defeat. It’s a convincing interpretation, even conceding
that prophecies are much easier to interpret in hindsight. There’s just one thing: if Osiris used the
Infinite Forest to develop his prophecies, and the Infinite Forest cannot accurately
simulate Light, how did Osiris predict the Traveler would wake? If you read the actually lost prophecies it
appears that this theory is mostly correct, for example The Lost Prophecy Verse 2 is meant
to predict the arrival of Ghaul, and the Prophecy that Osiris wrote reads,
To Tower comes a war in red; an orphan sounds the empire’s call. Mortal angels mourn the dead while lightless
light wraps night in pall. This is clearly a prediction of the red war
by the Cabal and the reference to an orphan is a reference to Ghaul. So, essentially, the Lost Prophecies were
predictions of the future that Osiris found in the Infinite Forest and wrote down as warnings,
he made them relatively cryptic because he understood that telling people about the future
may dramatically change the future, making the prophecies redundant and no longer prophecies. So why then did we not predict the arrival
of Ghaul, well, when Osiris was banished from the Tower, all Osiris related text was outlawed. Have a listen to what Ikora Rey says in West
of Sunfall 7: It started because of his Lost Prophecies. A misnomer—the prophecies were always accessible
to those who cared about them, but the Followers proclaimed them “lost” to a City that
had censored all Osirian material. And even then the City didn’t truly lose them,
for when the Speaker ordered me to destroy Osiris’s writings, I placed the documents
in my private library instead. I don’t believe in burning books, regardless
of my opinion of the author. So, even after Osiris was banished and the
Speaker order his prophecies to be burnt and destroyed, Ikora Rey hid them in her private
library. Of course the Cult of Osiris and the Followers
also had some prophecies which became their religious text. So, the point I am trying to make is, we receive
the quest line for Saint-14 as a Lost Prophecy which means that Osiris has seen the future
of Saint-14 and created a prophecy of what he saw in the Infinite Forest. The Lost Prophecy about Saint-14 from Osiris
reads, A tale that’s different from the rest: the
thread unfurls against the clocks. The one the Speaker loved the best must have
a perfect paradox. Unfortunately, like many of the prophecies
this is very difficult to interpret. we cannot really interpret. What I can make from it, is when it says,
the one the Speaker loved the best, I assume this is Osiris’s way of referring to Saint-14. Unfurls against the clocks may represent Saint-14’s
epic battle with the Vex, or Saint-14 battling time and the meaning of “prefect paradox”
could be interpreted multiple ways. A paradox is a seemingly absurd or contradictory
statement, I previously predicted this may related to Guardians receiving Saint-14’s
shotgun, which they had not yet created. It’s a paradox, how can we receive a gun
that we have not yet made. Alternatively, the paradox may be exactly
what this video is talking about, Saint-14 is both dead and alive, as is possible with
multiple realities. Regardless, to what you think, Osiris made
a Prophecy about Saint-14 that sent guardians on quest to save him. We follow a signal, that our Ghosts recognizes
as Saint-14 light and our ghost would later explain that Saint-14 was one of the first
guardians our ghost met before our revival. After tracking this familiar light we eventually
get a location reading of Saint-14 in the dark future. The mission concludes with discovering Saint-14’s
body in an enclosed area, the in-game dialogue says,
Ghost: What happened? Vex thousands of them. Ghost: Saint-14s light… it’s gone. Osiris: Rest in peace my friend. Sagira: Osiris… I’m so sorry. Ghost: I… I think we should leave him here. It looks like the Infinite Forest laid him
to rest. Built him a… memorial. Did the Vex learn to respect him? Your ghost poses the question that the Vex
respected him and made a memorial, which it certainly looks like, however the question
is never really answered, your ghosts speculates that the Vex created this as a tomb for Saint-14,
but your ghost doesn’t really know that, your ghost has simply predicted that is what
happened based on the appearance of the area. So the question still is, is this the real
Saint-14 and the Vex actually created a tomb for him, which is very uncharacteristic, or
is this a simulation of Saint-14, because we are in the simulated future of the Vex. And the other question is, is the future that
Osiris first saw that encouraged him to make the Lost Prophecy about Saint-14 in the first
place. If this is the real Saint-14, it suits nicely
with the lore, as Osiris may have predicted his death, created the prophecy hoping that
someone would understand it and save Saint-14, however no one ever does. It also makes a nice story considering the
lore tab of Saint-14s Gray Pigeon, Saint-14 sends a transmission to Osiris saying
News of my demise will no doubt reach you late. I can already see your response—the guilt
that will follow, however fleeting. Of course, if Osiris received a transmission
from Saint-14 proclaiming his death, Osiris may have just gone back into the Infinite
Forge try to find that future where Saint-14 dies, then send a Lost Prophecy back to the
present, which would then be passed onto guardians so that we can prevent Saint-14’s death. Even though your ghost doesn’t truly know
if the vex built this area as a memorial to Saint-14, it is very suggestive that they
did, however, is it possible that this is just a simulation of Saint-14’s body and
not the real Saint-14. Well firstly, your ghost says that Saint-14’s
light is gone, but we wouldn’t expect it to be there if this was a simulation anyway,
because most evidence points towards the Vex not being able to simulate the light. So it is up to you to decide whether this
body has no light because it is the true Saint-14 who has been completely drained of his light,
or if indicates a simulation of his body by the Vex and the Vex cant simulate the Light. Remember that the Vex did construct a machine
to completely drain Saint-14s light, the perfect paradox reads,
I never found Osiris, but I’ve killed enough Vex to end a war. And they, in turn, struck a fatal blow: they
completed a Mind with the sole function to drain the Light from me. It worked very well. Don’t worry (not that you worry much). It took them centuries to build, keyed to
the unique frequency of my Light. So on the topic of light, I think you could
say either way, the real Saint-14 died and had all the light drained by this Vex mind,
or is this is just a simulated Saint-14 and would not have any light anyway. The other thing that I think is important
when trying to determine if this is a simulation, is that this takes place in the simulation
of the Dark Future. Remember that this future is what the entire
Curse of Osiris campaign revolves around, this is the Future that Osiris saw, and after
exploring countless of timelines he realized that all timelines resulted in this future. This was the primary drive of the campaign,
our goal was to stop Panoptes, the Vex mind that created the Infinite Forrest and gave
the Vex the ability to experiment and predict their future always allowing them to win. So, we defeat Panoptes, and Osiris even says
in the final cutscene The Vex mind is destroyed, and the path to
their dark future is gone with it. So why is this future still here! Why does the Dark future still exist. Well Osiris, in the very next sentence provides
justification saying, We stopped the Vex this time. But many equations lead to the same solution
In addition, the very first time you visit the Dark Future again in the Adventure Up
and Up, it is explained as an experiment site, where the Vex are running experiments against
the Fallen. You ghost explains how valuable these simulations
are to the vex by saying, If these readings are correct, the destination
gateway is heavily protected. This simulation must be valuable. There’s nothing the Vex value more than
unique data. Furthermore, the Garden World which was a
campaign mission is repeated as a strike mission and the explanation is that Osiris intentionally
recreated the simulation it says, The Root mind is back! More precisely, I remade it using the power
of the Forrest. Unfortunately, the situation has… escaped
my oversight. So essentially what I am saying is, it doesn’t
really seem like we had an impact on the Vex’s ability to run simulations in the Infinite
Forest, despite killing Panoptes. Considering the Dark Future continues to exist
in the adventures and the Garden World returns as a strike mission, I think it is completely
plausible that the Saint-14 in the Dark Future is also a simulation. In my mind, there is nothing to suggest that
the Vex could not simulate Saint-14’s body. So, what do I think, at this stage I think
that the body in the Dark Future, is the real Saint-14 who was killed by the Vex, as much
as I would like Saint-14 to return at this stage I think it more likely to expand upon
Saint-14’s story during the Osiris web comics that will be released. I think that the fact that you have to retrieve
his personal effects from the Body during the mission leans more towards this being
the real Saint-14. Just remember Guardian, don’t spend too
much time in the Vex simulations, exploring the Infinite Forest, you may just lose track
of what is real and what is a simulation. That concludes this latest destiny 2 lore
episode. If you would like to support the video, you
can leave the word, “lost prophecy” to represent the Osiris’s prophecy of Saint-14
and despite his best efforts he could not be saved. As usual it has been a pleasure, this is myelin
games, peace.

48 Replies to “Destiny 2 Lore Is Saint-14 Really Dead? | Myelin Games”

  1. Transcript from Saint-14 mission if you want to read 🙂

    Lost Prophecy, Another Verse (Item)
    A tale that’s different from the rest: the thread unfurls against the clocks. The one the Speaker loved the best must have a perfect paradox.
    Complete “Signal Light”

    Legends Lost (World Quest)
    Follow an ancient signal to its source.

    In-game Dialogue
    Ghost: “I’m picking up a signal. It’s faint, but it’s definitely coming form the Forest. Sounds like an old Vanguard code.”
    Brother Vance: Perhaps you hear the final dreams of the lost.
    Ghost: Uh… thanks? Very helpful. Since I can’t track “dreams of the lost,” how about we go find that signal?

    Ghost: The signal’s getting stronger. I should be able to find the source, but there’s some kind of interference.
    Sagira: Signals tend to overlap, get mixed up with simulations… It can be hard to find what’s real and what’s not in there.

    Ghost: Detecting traces of familiar Light up here. Wait… Saint-14? He’s been missing for decades. Saint was one of the greatest Titans who ever lived. Hero of Six Fronts. All that power and he just vanished. The City’s still looking for him.

    (Simulant Present)
    Ghost: The signal’s coming from a Vex conflux. But there’s something odd. The time stream around it is unstable. I don’t know anything that could do that. Get me to it. Maybe we can figure this out.

    Osiris: Saint-14 is lost in the Infinite Forest, it’s because he came here to find us.
    Sagira: You cant blame yourself for every missing Guardian Osiris.
    Osiris: For him I can.

    Ghost: What was that? Light! The conflux was holding back a rift full of Light!

    Mission Complete
    Ghost: Vex from all times, fighting together. Like they were pulled here by the rift in the time stream – a rift Saint-14 made with his Light.
    Osiris: If he still lives, then we must find them.
    Ghost: Already ahead of you on that one. You start searching in here. We’ll head back to the Lighthouse and see if Vance knows anything.

    Legends Lost (World Quest)
    Visit Brother Vance
    The lighthouse, Mercury
    Tell Brother Vance about the rift of Light you found in the Infinite Forest.

    Brother Vance: Its him isn’t. The first Vanguard Commander! The one who made the great Osiris leader of the Warlocks. Saint-14! He could join us here in the Lighthouse. Fight alongside you and Osiris. Turn the tide against the Vex for good. Can you imagine? You found Osiris; you can find Saint-14. He’s got to be in the Infinite Forest. With him by our side, we could succeed where Osiris failed!
    Well you get the idea.

    Legends Lost (world quest)
    Saint-14 was the first Vanguard Commander. Lost for decades, he is still a legend among Guardians. If he returns, his presence will have a huge and very positive impact.

    Lost Prophecy, Another verse”(item)
    The Prophecy Tablet reacts to your deeds. Return it to Brother Vance in the Lighthouse on Mercury.
    Complete “Not even the Darkness

    Legends Lost, Not even the Darkness (world quest)
    Enter the Infinite Forest in pursuit of Saint-14

    Ghost: Yes! I have a reading on Saint-14’s location. Hold on, we’re coming for you.
    Brother Vance: Bring him back to us, Guardian. Saint-14 is a primary source for the early Osiris years. He will be able to settle some… let’s call them “differences of opinion in which one side is wrong”.
    Ghost: We’ll get right on that, Vance.

    Ghost: If Saint-14 has been lost all this time, do you think he’s ok?
    Sagira: Nothing could stop that old Exo. Probably lecturing a Vex? Titan lectures – long speeches, occasional punching.
    Ghost: Should be fine.

    Ghost: This place looks inviting
    Sagira: Oh yeah. You missed our first trip here. Vex are quite the decorators, aren’t they?

    Ghost: There! The signal is coming from beyond that gate.

    Ghost: And it moved. Definitely a temporal disruption.

    Osiris: If Saint-14 was threatened, he would attack. And he would not have known how easy it is to be cast adrift in these… realities.
    Ghost: Then we will find him and bring him home.

    Ghost: A Minotaur. Are they trying to keep us out, or him in?
    Sagira: Both? Take out the mind, take down the gate. It’s true in pretty much every reality.
    Ghost: Got him!

    Not even the Darkness
    Enter the Stronghold

    Ghost: What happened? Vex thousands of them.
    Ghost: Saint-14s light… it’s gone.

    Osiris: Rest in peace my friend.

    Not even the Darkness
    Recover Saint-14’s personal effects

    Sagira: Osiris… I’m so sorry.
    Ghost: I… I think we should leave him here. It looks like the Infinite Forest laid him to rest. Built him a… memorial. Did the Vex learn to respect him?

    Ghost: I don’t think I ever told you this, but Saint-14 was one of the first Guardians I ever met, even before I found you. I always hoped you’d turn out like him. I wasn’t disappointed. You were a good friend Saint. Goodbye.

    Lost Prophecy, Another Verse (item)
    The Prophecy Tablet reacts to your deads. Return it to Brother Vance in the Lighthouse on Mercury.

    Legends Lost
    Visit the Lighthouse
    Tell Brother Vance about the fate of Saint-14

    Brother Vance: That encryption pattern… let me examine it! Yes… yes! This relic you found – it once belonged to Saint-14! It has power. But not power enough to save the mighty Titan. Lost to the Vex. Alone in the Infinite Forest. We really do need each other. Guardian and Ghost. The Followers and Osiris. In any case. It is not our charge to keep relics such as these, it is yours now. Use this as he would have.

    Lost Prophecy Tablets
    Saint-14 died a hero, but he also died alone. It is essential that Guardians lean into each others’ strengths.

    Lost Prophecy, Another Verse (Fulfilled)
    Take the Prophecy Tablet to the Infinite Forge in the Lighthouse on Mercury.

  2. prophecy creates causality to which we need to distance ourselves from somehow in order to break the cycle reality seems to be trapped in. either collapse the multiverse into one verse (one reality) or to end reality & completely erase it & the multiverse in hopes that everything resets so we can have a chance to try again to break this infinite-infinity that we are doomed to endlessly repeat. we are the annomaly. we-our guardians are the paradox- its beginning, its means & its end. we are the key & the lock, as well as the door. everything is the way it is because we have made it that way & to keep it going & repeating along with being what should be & not be. yup im this realities asher mir. we just need to sit down with the fallen, hive, vex, taken, & whatever is coming with sandwiches & coffee & figure everything out together. that or nothing is real, & everything is permitted.

  3. Hey if you ever read the lore for saint 14 helmet and compare it with the perfect perodox shotgun, saint 14 is directly talking to us. It’s so dope too I love the lore . Apparently saint 14 saw a future or a vision of a guardian saviour. And if you keep reading the lore behind saint 14 helmet lord shax is having a conversation with cayde 6 about this new guardian from old Russia who he’s been keeping any eye on for a while now. It’s freaking awesome

  4. This story has so many unanswered questions, like the war minds and Anna bray. Are you gonna be speculating more on Anna and the bray family? Or you already have?

  5. thing is the mission starts by the ghost noticing it's Saint 14's light. So if it was all a sim, how on Earth did they have the initial light to follow?

  6. I just wanted to put something that struck me as extremely odd. Wasn't Rasputin suppose to possess a Exo in the original story (now it's speculated to be Cayde) yet I thought of something extremely peculiar. I have played Destiny since near Launch. But I've never heard Rasputin speak a word of proper English. Yet in the mission alluding to God's of Mars, Rasputin speaks through Ghost in a moment of relapse in perfect English. Very peculiar since Ghost has only ever translated from Rasputin. Never full on spoke with him as one. Anyone else want to leap on the wtf train?

  7. I think the truth is Saint14 died in the simulation, much like Sagira mention about the simulation "everything is real enough to kill you"

  8. Saint-14 IS NOT DEAD! There are several hints to us having met him even though we never saw him when he was alive, meaning we will meet him at some point through time travel and/or the infinite forest. The perfect paradox shotgun is more proof to this as it was saint-14's shotgun that we, player forged, and gave to him BEFORE we had met him, and we also forged it AFTER we found him dead. Another small hint is on his ship, saint-14's gray pigeon, where the very last line of text says "Im still trying". This might mean nothing but it was worth mentioning. The only reason we think hes dead is because the vex cant simulate light…right? However the traveler waking up released a shock-wave of light, which hit the infinite forest gateway and thus giving the vex their "sample" that they needed to simulate light. There is also a massive hint in the actual curse of Osiris trailer, where the guardians in the vault of glass simulation are clearly using their super abilities. I believe bungie and the vex want us to think that hes dead so that we stop looking for him. So basically we're gonna meet saint-14 again and we're gonna return to the infinite forest…unless this is all a big plot hole of-course 🙂

  9. The mission said it was the simulant Future. But, regardless, he better not be dead. How can Destiny really go its whole life cycle without doing Osiris and Saint 14 any justice? Smh. It’d be a huge waste of a character, as usual. Everything important always happens off-screen

  10. I think he's still alive I mean we don't know if he is dead just cause they said it doesn't mean anything

  11. Actually saint-14 isn't somowhat dead because he is an exo so can't he be reprogramed yes his memory

  12. so one of the quest in the game talks about exo data in the system and they blame cayde but seeing that saint 14 is an exo maybe it really meant him but then again they leave every thing open so they can change it later

  13. Lost prophecy! Also I didn’t hear you talk about the Perfect Paradox and how we gave the weapon to home and then he gave it back? Any insight?

  14. Hey great vid, I believe it is a simulation and he is still trapped in the forest, at least I hope. I hope Bungie is waiting for an epic moment where the earth is at its darkest moment and then out of no where a giant Bubble covers the battle area blinding and distorting enmities within it and at the center stands one Guardian. Saint 14. It would be so disappointing if Bungie wrote off a character with such great story potential.

  15. I think Saint-14 was found by Osiris, and memorialized by him. Osiris has us find Saint-14 to bring us closure.

  16. hope we see him alive later. would be much cooler than killing him before we got to really know him. would be cool if he made a surprise appearance on our path to fighting savathun

  17. Maybe the vex predicted that we would try to find him and made an illusion to trick us into thinking that saint-14 is dead and he’s still fighting inside the forest

  18. How come at the end of the main campaign when the traveler sent out that light why weren't any dead ghosts resurrected or dead guardians?

  19. What if the gaurdians from the future came to save him but were too late so they killed off those vex we see and made him a tomb there

  20. Now I'm not to so sure what happens to to an exo's original body when they are created. BUT what if we are Saint-14. Or at least the original body. That to would be a paradox as he or "we" if you want to go this route are a paradox, since we would be both alive and dead. Our living human past self looking at our future dead exo body.

  21. I know this is a bit late but I think the paradox is Schrodinger's Cat. Saint 14 is both alive and dead at the same time.

  22. dude, I love Destiny, I love your lore videos, but your voice is way too calming, I have fallen asleep while watching your content on more than one occasion… you should read bedtime stories for children, parents would pay big bucks, or pounds….lol

  23. How does one bring a real weapon out of a simulation? You don't, but Osiris knows he's going to die. He just hopes you can save him in time. More of his curse.

  24. I know this is old, but at 8:15, the lost prophecy to me reads like this, a certain heroic mission… It is timed… You must have the perfect paradox equipped. What do you think?

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