20111012 Interview With Jesus & Mary – Introduction To Jesus & Mary S1

20111012 Interview With Jesus & Mary – Introduction To Jesus & Mary S1


Geoff: Okay. First of all, Geoff: the reason for this interview in a nutshell Geoff: is that AJ, you believe that you are Jesus, Geoff: and Mary, you believe that you are Mary Magdalene. Geoff: And you’ve both admitted to a lot of people Geoff: that when hearing this Geoff: they would probably think you’re just clearly deluded. Geoff: So can you please explain how you arrived at this understanding? Jesus: Well Jeff, firstly, we don’t believe we were Mary Magdalene or Jesus, Jesus: but we believe we are. Jesus: And I suppose that is the beginning of the first Jesus: set of circumstances we need to explain. Jesus: And that is, we believe that people have one life, Jesus: not many lives. Jesus: And, and so therefore when your born first on Earth Jesus: usually your parents name you, Jesus: and in my case in the first century my parents named me Yeshua. Jesus: And, and then you grow Jesus: and certain things happen to you in your life. Jesus: So in my life I grew Jesus: and certain things happened in my earth-based life. Jesus: And then I, I died as, as many do. Jesus: I didn’t die the same way that a lot of people die, but I died. Jesus: And then I passed into the spirit world Jesus: and I was still the same person. Jesus: And then I progressed through the spirit world Jesus: still as the same person, Jesus: but just developing and growing Jesus: just like any person does. Jesus: And, and then we got to a point Jesus: where both Mary and myself Jesus: started recognizing that we were one soul Jesus: and not two separate individual souls. Jesus: And that’s something that we recognized Jesus: before we passed from the earth in the first century, but. Jesus: And then Mary was born in the first century in the same manner. Jesus: And she had a life in the first century. Jesus: And she died Jesus: and then she arrived in the spirit world Jesus: and she continued to progress just the same. Jesus: And we progressed together Jesus: recognizing that we were part of the same soul, Jesus: which we call soulmates I suppose, Jesus: but the reality is we’re one soul in two bodies, if you like. Jesus: And then we recognized after that development continued Jesus: that we had an opportunity to return to the planet Jesus: if we were willing to take on a different set of bodies, Jesus: we had an opportunity to return to the planet. Jesus: And so when we returned, Jesus: it was just the same process. Jesus: The same person Jesus and Mary Jesus: splitting into the two separate bodies if you like again Jesus: and then, and then developing on earth again. Jesus: But, but we’re still the same person, Jesus: it’s all one life as a memory of that entire life. Geoff: And you’ve always had this memory Geoff: even as a very young child in this life? Jesus: No, because you’ve got to understand Jesus: how memories are created Jesus: for every single person who’s ever lived. Jesus: We are selective about our memories Jesus: based on our emotional condition associated with the memories. Jesus: So usually what you find happening on the earth today Jesus: is that when memories are associated with trauma, Jesus: then generally they’re quite heavily suppressed. Jesus: And sometimes when memories are associated Jesus: with beautiful things that you’ve lost, Jesus: you often suppress the memories of those things as well. Jesus: And then in addition, Jesus: our day-to-day life sometimes isn’t very eventful Jesus: and so even yesterday I doubt many would, Jesus: many of us could actually recall in detail Jesus: what actually happened to us yesterday Jesus: unless there were some significant events that we could recall. Jesus: And so with regard to memory Jesus: what happens is there has to be Jesus: some emotional allowance of the memory occurring. Geoff: And how old were you when this first occurred? Jesus: Well for me I had some memories occur Jesus: when I was around two years of age in this life, Jesus: but I didn’t have an emotional allowance of what it meant. Jesus: So I had memories of somebody driving nails through my feet, Jesus: but I didn’t have any emotional way of joining that together Jesus: and realizing what it was, Jesus: given the brain of a two year old Jesus: is not probably capable of working out those particular things. Jesus: And so that, that was the beginning of some of my memories. Jesus: For Mary I think hers were more around when she was fourteen or fifteen. Mary: Yeah, fourteen or fifteen I think. Mary: I had, I had a specific event Mary: where I remembered being murdered Mary: and I remembered also being on the run for my life. Mary: And it was quite a big emotional memory, experience Mary: and I also didn’t have any context to put that in. Geoff: Did this come out in your conscious mind or in a dream or? Mary: No, it was, I was at a workshop, Mary: sort of like a personal development workshop. Mary: And really spontaneously a piece of music was played Mary: and I began to feel incredibly sad for no apparent reason. Mary: And I began to sob Mary: and suddenly the details of these traumatic events were upon me. Mary: And I spoke about them with the group I was with Mary: and they said Mary: ‘Well it’s a past life memory, Mary: and it’s okay, you just need to get on with things’. Mary: And I didn’t actually have a belief in reincarnation at the time. Mary: And so I didn’t put much stock in that. Mary: And I just tried to get on with my day. Mary: We moved onto doing other activities. Mary: But for me the grief just kept coming Mary: and coming and coming and coming for a good six hours. Mary: And beyond that, Mary: I just kind of filed it in the Mary: ‘I don’t understand category of my life’. Geoff: Until when? Mary: Until I met AJ, probably. Geoff: Ok. Mary: Although not immediately after I met AJ. Mary: Because when I met AJ, I was fairly skeptical, Mary: I think is probably the correct term. Mary: I was very, Mary: I resonated incredibly with what he was speaking about. Mary: In fact it was bizarre because I felt Mary: almost as if I understood what he was talking about before he explained it. Mary: And we had many conversations in the beginning of our relationship Mary: where we’d be discussing an issue Mary: and I’d sort of be saying Mary: ‘Oh, yeah, isn’t all this obvious, Mary: like doesn’t everyone see this’? Mary: And he would point out Mary: and there was a lot of evidence to the fact that Mary: ‘No, not everyone does believe or see this’. Mary: So when I met AJ, I was really attracted to what he was talking about, Mary: but I wished he’d stop telling people he was Jesus. Mary: Because I felt that really damaged the impact, Mary: the believability if you like Mary: and how open people were to responding to it. Jesus: You really had the approach, didn’t you, Jesus: that, that if you could convince me to that I wasn’t Jesus Jesus: then everything would be fine then. Mary: Yeah, it was a fairly arrogant approach, actually. Mary: Didn’t really put a lot of stock in how much you’d actually gone through Mary: to get to a point to be able to say it to people. Geoff: So AJ, how did your mother react when you came out so to speak? Jesus: Yeah, probably would have been sort of four or five months after I. Jesus: What, what happened, I obviously had a series, you know, Jesus: so now we’re jumping ahead nearly, Jesus: from two years of age to thirty-eight, Jesus: to nearly forty years of age. Jesus: So, so now there’s a fare bit of life in that little gap Jesus: where a lot of different things occurred, you know, Jesus: that were memories again that, that I, Jesus: that I couldn’t accept and I couldn’t explain. Jesus: And so what I did was very similar to what Mary did when she was fifteen. Jesus: And that is just slot it in the background Jesus: and say that ‘I don’t know anything about that’. Jesus: I didn’t believe in reincarnation the way it was portrayed by, Jesus: you know, people on the planet today. Jesus: And so, and I felt quite strongly Jesus: that the teaching of reincarnation had a lot of unloving basis to it, Jesus: therefore could not be truth. Jesus: And so I just slotted, like Mary did, Jesus: a lot of the events in the background Jesus: and just sort of left it for another day to resolve, basically. Jesus: And it wasn’t until I was around nearly forty Jesus: that I started having a lot stronger memories Jesus: and recollections of events Jesus: throughout my life in the first century Jesus: and in the spirit world and in this life. Jesus: And, and I started to actually take them a bit more seriously Jesus: and start documenting them. Jesus: And, and not only documenting them Jesus: but processing them, through them emotionally, Jesus: like accepting them emotionally. Jesus: And, and after about sort of, that, Jesus: that process began in earnest around 2003/2004. Jesus: And, and after about five months of it, Jesus: I was fairly convinced that I knew who I was. Jesus: In fact, it wasn’t the memories that convinced me, Jesus: it was just, it wasn’t like there was a necessary for-conviction even, Jesus: it was just this is who I am sort of feeling. Jesus: It’s a bit like you coming to terms with the fact, Jesus: let’s say that you, Jesus: and this would probably be a poor example, Jesus: but let’s say that you had some kind of inheritance Jesus: that you weren’t aware of. Jesus: And then someone came along and told you that actually, Jesus: you know, the parents you have now they were actually, Jesus: they’re actually your foster parents Jesus: and your real parents were such and such. Jesus: And those two parents would like to meet you Jesus: and get to know you and so forth. Jesus: You’d probably go through, you know, Jesus: a fair bit of turmoil in that sort of transition Jesus: where you sort of start doubting what, Jesus: you know, your own experience to a degree Jesus: and you start working your way through Jesus: who is my mum and dad Jesus: and what’s the reality and all of those kind of things. Jesus: But after a period of time Jesus: of working away through that emotionally, Jesus: you’d come to terms with the fact that, Jesus: yes, you had these real parents and, Jesus: and there was proof and evidence to support that Jesus: but you were adopted out. Geoff: So what’s made you certain beyond a doubt Geoff: that these memories are correct? Geoff: Because there’s a lot of stuff in the media Geoff: about repressed memories not being correct memories Geoff: and being, you know, that our minds have the ability Geoff: to fabricate things from different experiences and. Jesus: Totally, I agree with that. Geoff: And, and that our memories can’t really be relied upon. Geoff: What makes, what has given you the certainty? Jesus: The real memories are not the memory of the events, Jesus: but rather the memory of who I am. Jesus: It’s a bit like somebody coming along Jesus: and telling you Jeff that your somebody else. Jesus: No matter how much they try to Jesus: brainwash you into believing your somebody else, Jesus: at some point in time in the future Jesus: you’d probably come to terms with Jesus: what life you’ve actually had Jesus: and who you actually are Jesus: as a result of that particular life you’ve led. Jesus: And that’s really what’s happened for myself. Jesus: There’s nothing unique about the process, Jesus: it’s just that I’ve, Jesus: I’ve just remembered a lot of my life now Jesus: that I didn’t remember before Jesus: because of different emotional reasons that I had to, to suppress it. Jesus: And when I was no longer willing to suppress those particular memories, Jesus: they just arose quite naturally. Jesus: And as a result of that now I remember my, Jesus: you know, almost all of my life for the last two thousand years. Jesus: And there’s still gaps in it Jesus: that are due to further suppression Jesus: that I have of some particular memories that I’m aware of, Jesus: but, but I can tell you, you know, pretty, Jesus: it’d take quite a few weeks to give you Jesus: a bit of summary of my life over that period of time obviously. Jesus: But, but I could give you a pretty concise summary Jesus: of all the things that have occurred over my life over that period. Geoff: Yeah, and, and it conflicts in some ways Geoff: with the biblical account, doesn’t it? Jesus: Of course! Jesus: Like I, I even have memories of watching Jesus: the biblical account being modified Jesus: to suit the people who modified it, Jesus: in terms of to suit power and manipulation of people and so forth. Jesus: So not only do I have the memories of my life Jesus: but also the memories of watching people modify Jesus: the account of my life to suit their own ends. Geoff: So you’ve got memories of the spirit world as well? Jesus: Yeah. And what we did in the spirit world and so forth. Jesus: And how I arrived, and what I did after I arrived Jesus: and what I did when Mary, you know, Jesus: whilst Mary was still on earth Jesus: because I passed before Mary did. Jesus: And what we did until our children passed, our child passed. Jesus: And then what we did after that as well. Geoff: So when, when you were in the first century you had a daughter. Geoff: Is that correct? Jesus: Yeah. She wasn’t born when I died. Mary was pregnant. Geoff: No, you said you were at six months pregnant. Jesus: Yeah. And Mary gave birth to her after I passed. Yeah. Geoff: And you have a memory of watching this Geoff: from the spirit world all take place? Jesus: Yeah. Mary was in Egypt at the time Jesus: and gave birth to Sarah in Egypt. Yeah. Jesus: And Mary was of course. Geoff: Well, this puts you in a fairly unique position Geoff: because I haven’t met anybody else Geoff: who has a memory of the spirit world. Geoff: What’s it like? Jesus: Well it depends where you are in the spirit world Jesus: as to what it is like. Jesus: A lot of people from Earth Jesus: arrive in the spirit world in quite a dark condition. Jesus: And when I say dark condition, Jesus: what I’m doing is referring to their condition of love. Jesus: So in other words, Jesus: in the spirit world, Jesus: it’s your condition of love, Jesus: of love that determines where you arrive Jesus: and how you generally progress thereafter. Jesus: And so if a person has a poor condition of love while on earth Jesus: where they’ve used their will on earth to attack others, Jesus: to harm others and to cause harm to the environment and so forth, Jesus: then what happens is that when they pass Jesus: they’re in a fairly poor condition of love Jesus: and they’re environment in the spirit world matches their condition. Jesus: And so for the majority of people who pass, Jesus: they pass into what’s called the first sphere Jesus: or the first dimension of the spirit world. Jesus: And the first dimension ranges in, Jesus: from a very, very terrible conditions, Jesus: which match what, what Jesus: Dante’s description of hell for example. Jesus: And, and even worse than that, Jesus: complete darkness, desolation, no love. Jesus: Right the way through to what’s called Jesus: the top of the first sphere, Jesus: which is a location called summer land, Jesus: which is where many children arrive, Jesus: and that could be likened to a place Jesus: that’s the most beautiful place you can imagine here on earth. Jesus: So that’s the first dimension. Jesus: The, the different levels of the first dimension Jesus: range between those particular conditions. Jesus: And the average person on earth Jesus: passes into one location in the first dimension in the spirit world. Geoff: And that’s dependent upon what, their development? Jesus: Primarily it’s their development in love. Jesus: So how much they understand love Jesus: and practice it in their day-to-day life. Jesus: It’s got nothing to do with religious background, Jesus: racial background, you know, gender background. Jesus: Nothing to do with what kind of life you lead Jesus: in terms of what society believed about you or felt about you. Jesus: It’s got everything to do with Jesus: what in reality is love from God’s perspective. Jesus: It’s God that set up the universal system Jesus: and so therefore it’s God’s laws that are enacted, Jesus: not mans. Jesus: And so quite often people feel Jesus: that they’re in a good condition of love, Jesus: but when they pass into the spirit world Jesus: they, they soon come to terms with the fact, Jesus: for many, they soon come to terms with the fact Jesus: that they’re not is as good condition of love as what they believed. Jesus: There are very few people who pass Jesus: into the second sphere in the spirit world Jesus: or the second dimension. Jesus: And historically, there’s only been a few people Jesus: that have ever passed into the third dimension of the spirit world. Geoff: Can you give some examples? Jesus: Gandhi passed into the third sphere of the spirit world, Jesus: into the third dimension directly. Jesus: There were historically Jesus: some of the people who you would like, Jesus: who, well they’re mostly unknowns. Jesus: People that you wouldn’t, Jesus: that the average person wouldn’t know Jesus: because they’ve lived very mundane lives on earth Jesus: and lived very normal, Jesus: what would be classified as normal lives on earth. Jesus: Often it’s the people who’ve lived famous lives on earth Jesus: who pass into the first condition in quite, Jesus: into the first sphere in quite a poor condition Jesus: because they had a lot of addictions in play, many of them and Jesus: also had a lot of intentions that weren’t based on love. Geoff: So the afterlife is as you see it as, Geoff: it’s like people who pass into the hells as you call it, Geoff: that’s not a position of permanency of forever torment. Geoff: But that’s a transitional period and they, Geoff: everyone has, every soul has the chance to progress. Geoff: Is that correct? Jesus: That’s correct, yeah. Jesus: So every soul, every person, Jesus: no matter where they are, Jesus: whether they’re here on earth or in the spirit world Jesus: have the chance to progress out of their condition. Jesus: And the amount of desire they have to do that Jesus: or what I would classify as the exercise of their freewill, Jesus: you know, how much they want to do it, Jesus: will determine how fast they move from one dimension to the next. Jesus: Unfortunately on earth here there are a lot of impediments, Jesus: social impediments to progressing beyond a certain condition. Jesus: Because the more your condition of love Jesus: is out of harmony with the world’s condition, Jesus: the more generally you’re attacked. Jesus: And this is why the majority of people on earth Jesus: finish up staying in a certain condition until they pass, Jesus: because there is this general weight of the world Jesus: which prevents the person from growing Jesus: in further conditions of love without, Jesus: because of their own fear of being attacked, Jesus: sort of causes them to stagnate if you like. Jesus: And so, there’s many people on earth with good intentions Jesus: and I’d say there’s billions of people on earth with good intentions, Jesus: but unfortunately our unhealed emotions Jesus: cause us to be very afraid of different things. Jesus: In particularly, afraid of violence and attack. Jesus: And since we’re afraid of the violence and attack, Jesus: we then have a tendency to stagnate Jesus: in our development to a certain point of love. Jesus: Once we go beyond that point, Jesus: there’s a higher likelihood of us being attacked Jesus: or being treated violently. Jesus: And as a result of that, Jesus: we have a tendency to stay at a certain point Jesus: where we’ve grown to a certain point of love Jesus: but don’t have the courage to Jesus: make the next step into a greater condition of love. Jesus: And that’s what is the biggest impediment here on earth, Jesus: the general projection of the environment towards an individual Jesus: who attempts to grow beyond the condition of love Jesus: that the average person experiences. Geoff: And you talk about people as, Geoff: the soul as coming into the earth’s environment Geoff: as a sort of duality, a female and male. Jesus: Not always female and male, yeah. Geoff: But feminine and masculine? Jesus: Not always, no. Jesus: The soul itself, the complete soul, Jesus: when it’s amalgamated, Jesus: has a combination of feminine and masculine qualities. Jesus: But the soul when it splits Jesus: has three potential ways of splitting. Jesus: One way of splitting is for one half to be male Jesus: and the other half to be female. Jesus: In other words, one half to be dominantly masculine in qualities Jesus: and therefore attract a masculine body. Jesus: And the other half to be dominantly feminine in qualities Jesus: and therefore attract a feminine body. Jesus: Then the other alternative is that the soul Jesus: has more femininity in it as a total,. Mary: As a personality. Jesus: As a personality. Jesus: And when it splits, Jesus: one half splits with a fair dominance of femininity, Jesus: so that goes into a female body. Jesus: And the other half splits into, Jesus: with a dominance of feminine qualities, Jesus: into a female body. Jesus: The third alternative Jesus: is that the soul is dominantly masculine, Jesus: even though it does have some feminine qualities. Jesus: And if that happens, Jesus: then generally the soul will split into a dominate, Jesus: one half will split into a dominantly masculine Jesus: and therefore attract a dominantly masculine body, Jesus: a male body. Jesus: And the other half is dominantly masculine Jesus: so it’ll also attract a masculine body. Jesus: So they are the three potential ways of the soul splitting. Geoff: So Mary’s your soul mate. Geoff: So is her soul development exactly the same as yours? Mary: No. Can, can I answer that? Mary: Yeah. I’d like to answer that. Mary: No. Mary: So for every soul, Mary: as it splits, Mary: so every soul splits at the time of incarnation. Mary: And ourselves, we reached a certain development in love, Mary: which meant that we could re-incarnate Mary: for one of a better term, Mary: and we split again. Jesus: Can I just explain that when Jesus: we reached that unified condition, Jesus: we did have exactly the same development in love. Jesus: Because that’s the only way that you can unify Jesus: by having the same development in love. Mary: But then for, for any half of a soul, if you like, Mary: for yourself, equally myself, at this time, Mary: and, and AJ at this time, Mary: we’re all impacted upon by the environment Mary: in which we grow up. Mary: Our connection to God is also limited by those things Mary: or encouraged depending upon the upbringing that we have. Mary: And so my soul development, Mary: which is the development of my soul, Mary: how I classify is in terms of love, Mary: and for myself in terms of connection with God, Mary: because I have a strong passion for God. Our soul. Mary: Each soul has it’s own personality. Mary: So our soul’s personality has a strong desire for God, Mary: which is part of the reason why historically we’re noted for that, Mary: or at least you are. Mary: So at incarnation or re-incarnation, Jesus: the personality remains intact of the soul. Mary: However the life experience then begins to affect the soul condition. Mary: So for myself and AJ, Mary: we’ve grown up in completely different families. Mary: And so, and had different experiences, Mary: had different levels of openness to God and emotion Mary: according to the family life that we’re in this time. Mary: And so at this stage, Mary: AJ’s soul development in love Mary: is greater than my own Mary: but that’s not necessarily always going to be the case, Mary: but it is at this time. Mary: Does that answer your question well? Jesus: And it’s not because of anything that Jesus: I have intrinsically that’s different than Mary. Jesus: It’s only because we’ve had different opportunities. Jesus: I began the process of clearing away Jesus: the errors of my soul Jesus: quite a number of years before Mary begun the process. Jesus: So I sort of had a head start in terms Jesus: of the process of clearing away the errors in my soul in this life. Jesus: Which really for me begun probably close to fifteen years ago now, Jesus: in terms of the processes I was involved in. Jesus: Whereas for Mary, it really probably begun four years ago. So. Mary: Yep, maximum. Probably three, really. Jesus: Yeah. So, so it’s just that, Jesus: if Mary had begun fifteen years ago Jesus: and I’d begun four years ago, Jesus: then our situation would be reversed, you know. Jesus: Where Mary would be in a better condition of love than I would be, Jesus: because she would have probably dealt with more emotional reasons Jesus: why she wasn’t loving than I would have at this point. Jesus: So it just, it just has depended upon our circumstances Jesus: and the different things that happened in our life Jesus: that got us to the point where we are now. Jesus: It has got nothing to do with me Jesus: intrinsically being sort of better or worse than Mary or vice versa. Jesus: It’s just got to do with more, Jesus: to do with life’s opportunities Jesus: and then what decisions were made with those particular opportunities. Geoff: Ok. Just back stepping a little bit. Geoff: In this life, you’ve been a computer, Geoff: you’ve been, Geoff: you’ve run a successful computer company Geoff: for about twenty years, you said. Jesus: Yep. I also window cleaned and did other things. Geoff: Yeah. And Mary you were an occupational therapist? Mary: Yep. Yeah. Geoff: Ok. Geoff: Now the Padgett Messages. Geoff: You talk about them a lot. Geoff: They’ve had a big influence on you. Geoff: Or. Now they claim to be, Geoff: correct me if I’m wrong, Geoff: they claim to be automatic writing, Geoff: messages passed from yourself in the spirit world. Geoff: Is that correct? Jesus: That’s correct. Geoff: In about 1920. Jesus: A, just yeah, in between 1914 and 1920. Geoff: Ok. Mary: And not, not just from you. Jesus: And not just from me. Mary: From many others. Jesus: But from a lot of our friends as well in the spirit world. Geoff: So, can you explain what automatic writing is Geoff: and this channeling business that a lot of people don’t quite Geoff: understand or have anything or any knowledge of? Jesus: Sure. Mary: So, channeling is really just, Mary: just as you and I are having a conversation. Mary: It’s the ability to have a similar conversation Mary: with someone who’s lost their physical body Mary: and is now in a spirit form. Mary: And so that can occur with anyone in the spirit world. Mary: We began to talk about the different levels Mary: that exist in the spirit world earlier. Mary: So anywhere from the first sphere or realm, Mary: which is a lower condition of love Mary: than say the seventh or eight sphere, Mary: which is the transition where we become Mary: At-One with God, if you like, Mary: all the way into the celestial heavens, Mary: which are all the spheres beyond there. Mary: So the process of channeling Mary: is having a communication with spirits in one of those realms. Geoff: And do you, you still currently do that? Mary: Yes. Geoff: And how often do you do this? Jesus: All day, most days. Geoff: All day, all day every day. Jesus: Yeah. Well you know, while, while we’re sitting here, Jesus: there a spirits involved in our conversation. Jesus: There’s spirits influencing even your questions Jesus: and they even influenced you writing down the questions that you had. Jesus: And there’s a lot of spirits involved in terms of, Jesus: next to each person, Jesus: in terms of guiding each person. Jesus: But there is also other spirits Jesus: who want to influence people negatively. Jesus: And, and in the first century, Jesus: I recognized and saw that quite early in my life. Jesus: And I wasn’t impeded as most people were by being blocked to, Jesus: to those particular interactions with the spirit world. Jesus: And my friend John The Baptist, Jesus: he also had a strong feeling for spirits Jesus: and he could see spirits as well. Jesus: And so that meant that we could, myself and John, Jesus: we’re only six months apart in terms of age, Jesus: we could often talk to spirits Jesus: when mum and our parents weren’t around. Jesus: And so we often learnt a lot through that process Jesus: and for me that’s when it began. Jesus: For Mary it began in the first century as well like that, Jesus: where she recognized communication with spirits and. Mary: But I was certainly under the influence of a lot of spirits Mary: without recognition for a long time as well. Mary: And that is the reality for just about all of us on the planet at the moment. Geoff: Positive or negative? Mary: Both. At all times and, and well, the majority of times, yeah. Geoff: Now, there’s a lot, there’s, Geoff: since the new age movement began, Geoff: there’s been a lot of people claiming Geoff: to have channeled a lot of historical figures, Geoff: and you say that a lot of these people have been deceived. Geoff: Because we really don’t know who’s behind the curtain, do we? Geoff: You know, they say they’re somebody but. Jesus: Yeah. Unless you can physically see them and also feel their Mary: Discern from a place of love. Jesus: Yeah, feel the love in the person you’re speaking to. Geoff: So how do you discern who, what you’re communicating with? Jesus: Well, a lot of the people we’re communicate with Jesus: are people we knew on earth in the first century. Jesus: So you know, they’re people who’ve been with us Jesus: most of our lives for two thousand years. Jesus: So for that reason we know them very well Jesus: and we know who we’re talking to. Jesus: For others, it’s a matter of seeing, of, Jesus: of testing the spirits that come to speak. Jesus: So the way that you do that is Jesus: by asking them things about their life Jesus: and asking them to describe their life on earth Jesus: and talk to them about their individual circumstances. Jesus: And in many cases you can verify the, the person, Jesus: the person’s life, you know, Jesus: when they were on earth at least Jesus: and verify when they died without actually, Jesus: after the event of talking to them. Jesus: So you can easily see whether they were person’s Jesus: lying about those events or not. Mary: I would say there’s more to it for me. Did you want to. Jesus: No, keep going. Mary: For myself it requires a level of emotional openness Mary: to what it is I’m feeling Mary: and a dedication to my own growth in love. Mary: The more that I feel I can be discerning about Mary: about my own emotional condition and, Mary: and what is truly loving Mary: and feel with honesty the emotions that are within me, Mary: the more I feel I can do that with you Mary: and also with the spirits involved. Mary: So, I’m not sure, Mary: that’s probably a fairly foreign concept to most people but, Mary: I feel that if I’m in connection with what it is I’m really feeling, Mary: not afraid to, to feel what that is, Mary: then when I’m sitting with you, Mary: I’ll also be open to what you feel. Mary: Because most of the time the thing that blocks me Mary: being open to what you feel is Mary: something that’s going to be triggered in me Mary: when I feel what you feel. Mary: Does that, is that? Yeah. Mary: And equally, Mary: I have the same experience with spirits. Mary: And so if a spirit comes to me full of rage and anger Mary: and I can feel that Mary: and then they try and tell me they’re from a Mary: sphere that’s quite developed in love, Mary: I immediately know that there’s a, Mary: there’s an untruth being spoken. Jesus: Also, also, if I can just address Jesus: the other part of the question that you asked. Jesus: And that is, why is it that they’re always Jesus: famous people that people who’ve channeling. Jesus: And that is a very, very interesting question. Jesus: And, and the main answer to that is the fact Jesus: that the person on earth Jesus: wants it to be a famous person that they’re channeling. Jesus: And so therefore they are open Jesus: to suggestion by anybody that, you know. Jesus: So it’s a bit like if you couldn’t see me Jesus: and I came along to you and said, Jesus: ‘Oh, I’m a famous person’, that you now, Jesus: I thought would appeal to you, Jesus: and you wanted to believe that, Jesus: you would just probably accept it Jesus: and then we’d have a talk Jesus: on the basis of me being that famous person. Jesus: Over a period of time, if I, Jesus: if you were open to my feelings Jesus: and you started questioning me in more detail, Jesus: you’d soon find out probably Jesus: whether I’m speaking the truth or not over a period of time. Jesus: The problem is that most mediums on the planet Jesus: are not open to doing that Jesus: because they want every single person who comes to them Jesus: to be a famous person in history. Jesus: And there’s billions of people Jesus: who have never been famous on earth Jesus: but are, who are surrounding the earth constantly Jesus: and who want to have their moment of fame. Jesus: And so it’s quite easy for them to just falsify their, Jesus: you know, their identity and the connection. Mary: People in, people in spirit are really people in spirit often. Mary: They haven’t changed much from when they were on earth and. Jesus: Yeah. If they could falsify something and get away with it, they will. Mary: Yeah. Geoff: Now, you’ve, this knowledge that you’ve said Geoff: that there’s going to be earth changes in 2012, Geoff: did you have this knowledge Geoff: or did you get this knowledge Geoff: from celestial beings that have, Geoff: that have given you this knowledge? Geoff: Or because, in about twenty years ago Geoff: I read a number of different channeled books, Geoff: that purported to have been Andronicus Geoff: and all sorts of things, Geoff: and they also claimed of calamities Geoff: that were going to happen in the late eighties Geoff: and the late nineties. Geoff: And, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses as you’ve say Geoff: have had people say that it was going to happen in 1914. Geoff: This knowledge that you’ve got. Geoff: First of all, can you tell us what you believe Geoff: is going to happen next year in 2012. Jesus: Well the interesting thing is that we don’t have any, Jesus: what I would call firm time frame for events that will occur. Jesus: We just have, we just have our feelings to go by. Jesus: And my feelings are often different to Mary’s feelings Jesus: on that particular matter. Mary: Yeah, we need to state that clearly. Jesus: And so, my feelings, my feelings are Jesus: that sometime over the coming few years, Jesus: there are going to be fairly significant earth based events Jesus: that are caused by a combination of events. Jesus: The two events primarily that are causing it Jesus: is the amount of resistance and fear on the planet Jesus: that’s causing man-kind to take certain actions Jesus: that they’re taking to destroy the planet, Jesus: and then the corresponding force of God’s love Jesus: permeating through the universe Jesus: in ever increasing dosages if you like. Jesus: And the, the combination of these two factors Jesus: cause events to actually occur, Jesus: in fact cause the evolution of man-kind Jesus: into a more positive condition. Jesus: And they do affect physically every single thing in the universe. Jesus: So every single thing in the universe Jesus: has a raised potential of evolution Jesus: as God’s love permeates each, each of those creations. Geoff: But from what I heard you describe, Geoff: it sounds, you are, I think, Geoff: when you were giving a seminar in Greece, Geoff: you mentioned three super volcanoes, Geoff: a shift of tectonic plates and a, Geoff: and a reversal of the polarity and, Geoff: and large water. Geoff: And that sounded fairly dramatic. Jesus: Well, but the reality, Jesus: remember if you listen to that entire discussion that I had in Greece, Jesus: right at the start of the discussion Jesus: I put in a fairly major disclaimer. Jesus: Which was, Jesus: I actually felt that’s what would happen at, Jesus: that’s the feeling I had at this particular point in time. Jesus: And while I still have those same feelings Jesus: that those particular events will occur, Jesus: that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a potential for them to change. Jesus: Secondly. Geoff: But you said about March or April next year, at the time. Jesus: That’s what I said at the time. Jesus: I said at the time this is what I feel. Geoff: But you’re not so sure about that now, Geoff: is that what you’re saying? Jesus: No. No. Jesus: What I’m saying is that people ask me what I feel Jesus: and all I can ever do is tell them what I feel at that time. Geoff: So this is an intuition more than a message from? Jesus: Yes, and I’ve said, Jesus: I’ve stated quite categorically Jesus: that until I’m At-One with God, Jesus: I cannot state for certain Jesus: any particular event of what will occur in the future. Jesus: It’s only when you’re At-Onement with God Jesus: that you can do so with any degree of accuracy. Geoff: Now you, you said that it took you until about the age of thirty Geoff: to be At-One with God in your first incarnation. Jesus: Yes. Geoff: When and you say that your a working progress at the moment. Jesus: Yes. Geoff: When do you believe that time is going to come? Jesus: Well in the first century what happened was that, Jesus: I was about eighteen years of age Jesus: when I started to contemplate Jesus: that I was possibly the Messiah Jesus: that was foretold in the bible that I’d, Jesus: you know, in the parts of the bible that I’d read at the time. Jesus: It wasn’t called the bible then obviously, Jesus: it was the Books Of The Prophets that we used to read as Jews. Jesus: And, and after reading my way through those Jesus: and having a deep interest in those Jesus: for many years of my life in the first century, Jesus: by the time I was eighteen Jesus: I started to contemplate that perhaps Jesus: I might be that particular Messiah that was spoken of. Jesus: And by the time I was twenty one Jesus: I was quite certain that I was that person Jesus: that I realized that I had to do quite a lot of Jesus: development in love to become that person. Jesus: And so it took me around, Jesus: if you take from eighteen to thirty one years of age Jesus: was when I became At-One with God in the first century, Jesus: in that so, it took me thirteen years if you like Jesus: for me to become At-One with God in the first century Jesus: after having a concept of what that meant inside of myself. Geoff: And you claim that you’re the first human being Geoff: to have ever done that? Jesus: Yes. First person in this planet Jesus: to have ever done that, yes. Jesus: I do feel that there are persons on other planets Jesus: who have done that Jesus: and there was always a first. Jesus: It’s a bit like, there’s, Jesus: there’s a first person to discover flight. Jesus: And there’s a first person to discover Jesus: all sorts of scientific endeavors, if you like. Geoff: And so you can see yourself working Geoff: towards this same state in this life? Jesus: Yes. Yes. So, it was only about eight years ago Jesus: that I recognized Jesus: and had the memories of who I was return to me. Jesus: And also then recognized within myself Jesus: the desire to become At-One with God again Jesus: in that same kind of condition. Jesus: And so for the last eight years Jesus: I’ve been working towards that goal. Jesus: And if it takes me another eight years, Jesus: I wouldn’t be disappointed. Jesus: Do you know what I mean? Like, so. Geoff: And when you were in this state in the first century, Geoff: you had a reputation of being a healer and a miracle worker. Geoff: Is this, is this true? Jesus: Well parts of it were true. Jesus: There were certain things that, Jesus: it was claimed that I did, Jesus: that I didn’t actually do. Jesus: And but there were certain things that I certainly did do. Jesus: But that only occurred after I became At-One with God Jesus: and it was dependent upon God. Jesus: It wasn’t, it wasn’t something that I could do at my own. Mary: Will really. Jesus: Well at my own choice, if you like. Jesus: Because, but because my choices were in harmony with Gods, Jesus: when you become At-One with God, Jesus: your choices are in harmony with God’s. Jesus: It meant that my choice was the same as God’s choice Jesus: and under those circumstances Jesus: I could heal if the person who was, Jesus: who was being healed Jesus: also had a desire to be healed. Jesus: So if they didn’t have a desire to be healed Jesus: and it had to be a true desire that they felt in their heart, Jesus: not just an intellectual desire, Jesus: then I couldn’t heal them anyway. Mary: If you contrast it, I mean, Mary: it’s possible for me, Mary: for you to heal me right now. Mary: There just has to be a certain set of conditions. Mary: And that is that you’re in harmony with Mary: God’s desire for that healing to happen, Mary: and that I am in a place of openness Mary: and faith for that to happen. Mary: Now, because at the time AJ was Mary: completely in harmony with God’s desires, Mary: when he healed someone, Mary: he could always heal them. But. Jesus: But I didn’t heal everyone I met Jesus: because it depended upon their condition, their desire. Geoff: So even crippled, blind, those stories in the bible? Jesus: All those stories involving cripples and blind people Jesus: and other physical ailments Jesus: including loss of limbs and all of those stories are all true. Jesus: But all the stories involving Jesus: what I would call ‘super-natural feats’ Jesus: were not true. Jesus: So for example, the, the claim that I Jesus: turned water into wine, for example is not true. Geoff: The walking on the water, Geoff: you didn’t go skiing that day? Jesus: No. I didn’t walk on water. Jesus: Although I do believe it’s possible. Geoff: Did you find fish over the other side of the boat in more quantities? Jesus: Yes, but that’s quite simple. Jesus: Because all you have to do is have the psychic ability Jesus: to have a spirit tell you that this is where the fish are. Geoff: You didn’t calm the waters? Geoff: Or did you calm the disciples? Jesus: Well both probably. Jesus: The reality is you can calm your environment through your emotions. Jesus: So the reality is that one reason Jesus: why the earth is experiencing Jesus: a lot of quite difficult environmental events Jesus: is because of the fear of the people on the earth. Jesus: And if you reduce the fear of people on the earth Jesus: then the environment responds differently Jesus: to the soul of the people on the earth. Jesus: So the reality is is if you calm the individual Jesus: at a soul level Jesus: then the environment around them also calms, Jesus: and that’s something that God created Jesus: as part of the truth of the environment we live in. Jesus: And that can be demonstrated scientifically Jesus: and that’s one of the things I’d certainly Jesus: hope to demonstrate in the future scientifically. Jesus: So there are some truths Jesus: that are presented in the scriptures about what I did Jesus: and then there are some falsifications Jesus: that try to make me more powerful than I was Jesus: in order to compare me with other, Jesus: with other people who had likewise been lied about Jesus: about what they did in order to make it more Jesus: palatable for different people to become Christian. Jesus: But also this concept, Jesus: there was this concept that they couldn’t, Jesus: many people couldn’t understand Jesus: the degree of love that I displayed. Jesus: And so then began treating me Jesus: as if I was some divine individual or God, Jesus: rather than just a person who was At-One with God Jesus: or who had learnt from God. Jesus: And so that, that was part of the problem. Jesus: It was this, it was the misconception of people Jesus: as well of what it meant to be At-One with God. Geoff: So, so, in the future. Jesus: What did you wanna say? Mary: I just wanted to say that this is really integral to, Mary: to why we’re here Mary: and why we are here in the way that we are. Mary: Why there’s not just one of us, Mary: why there’s in fact fourteen of us. Mary: All coming from a condition of quite perceptible error Mary: in our lives prior to now and even now. Mary: It’s quite easy to see that we’re not perfect individuals perfected in love. Mary: But the purpose of doing so and doing so now Mary: apparently increasingly more publicly Mary: is to demonstrate that it’s not because Jesus is God, Mary: that, that he was so amazing, Mary: that this potential exists within every soul that God has created. Mary: And that’s, that’s really. Mary: A lot of people ask us about our identities Mary: and a lot of people are Mary: fascinated or dubious or attacking even Mary: about this process of memory. Mary: And while I feel it’s valid to ask all of those questions, Mary: I also feel that there are other questions Mary: that I hope become more prevalent in people Mary: that follow on from there about Mary: why is this so, and why would you do this, and’. Mary: Because that’s really the basis of why we are here. Mary: And I understand that it’s shocking Mary: and people need to ask about Mary: or people want to ask about these things, Mary: but I look forward to the day when Mary: people ask more about God and about love, Mary: because that’s certainly what we’re passionate about. Jesus: Yeah, the reality for both of us Jesus: is that the Jesus and Mary Magdalene thing Jesus: is not that important, Jesus: we feel is not that important to anybody else but ourselves. Geoff: So your messages are more important? Jesus: Of course. It’s like, it’s like Jesus: your identity is really important to yourself, Jesus: like, you are who you are. Geoff: I guess its important for this interview Geoff: in that there is much skepticism about obviously Geoff: what you claim and you expect that. Jesus: Of course. Mary/Jesus: Yes. Geoff: And, and so I’m trying to address that skepticism. Jesus: Yeah. Can I, can I point out though that you, Jesus: when I met you, Jesus: you came up to me and said that you were Geoff, Jesus: and I didn’t, I didn’t have skepticism about your claim. Geoff: No. No. Jesus: So, so the main purpose of the skepticism Jesus: is because of my claim that I’m Jesus. Jesus: It’s not. Geoff: Yeah. Jesus: Like, if I was saying that I was just Alan John Miller, Jesus: and I’m claiming I’m Alan John Miller, Jesus: everyone’s fine with that. Jesus: But as soon as I claim that I’m Jesus, Jesus: that’s when everybody becomes skeptical. Mary: And to some degree. Geoff: Well I guess because a lot of people regard Jesus, Geoff: the historical Jesus, Geoff: as being probably the most influential character Geoff: of the last two thousand years. Geoff: And when someone comes along and says ‘Hey, I’m him’, Geoff: you know, I guess we have the right Geoff: to say ‘Well, I need a little bit of proof here’, you know. Mary: I, I wouldn’t say that, Mary: I don’t, I, I don’t know about the right. Mary: I feel it’s natural to desire to discern whether it’s truth or not. Jesus: And we’re perfectly happy to answer any questions associated with it, Jesus: but, but if a person demands of us the right, Jesus: then, then I feel that they’re a bit out of line, really. Geoff: No, that’s fine. Jesus: The, the, the reality is Jesus: that it will soon become apparent Jesus: whether what we’re claiming to be is true or not, you know. Jesus: So, you know, Jesus: if somebody comes and visits us in ten years time Jesus: and we haven’t progressed beyond what we are today Jesus: and we haven’t done anything more than what we’ve have done today, Jesus: then I’m sure people would be very skeptical. Jesus: The other problem that people have I feel Jesus: when it comes to the claim of being Jesus Jesus: is that they, they expect, Jesus: they, they remember the Jesus Jesus: who is thirty one years old onwards. Jesus: In other words, they know nothing of me before that time. Jesus: The only other record of me in the bible Jesus: is when I was twelve years old, Jesus: and even that was incorrect. Jesus: So, you know, there’s my birth Jesus: and a few months after my birth, Jesus: that’s recorded, Jesus: then there’s a gap of twelve years. Jesus: Then I’m twelve Jesus: and there’s one event that was recorded. Jesus: And then there’s a gap of eighteen years. Jesus: And then there’s another event, Jesus: a series of events recorded. Jesus: And people don’t contemplate very much Jesus: what happened in those gapped years, Jesus: what, what, what were the events of Jesus’s life Jesus: in the times in between. Jesus: And, and what I’m demonstrating to people now is, Jesus: what I’m doing now is what happened in between. Jesus: This is the process of becoming At-One with God. Jesus: This is what it involved for me in the first century Jesus: and this is what is going to involve for any body Jesus: who wishes to become At-One with God. Jesus: And, and, and I can remember the gaps in between Jesus: if anybody’s interested to hear, Jesus: but what do you have to verify it with. Jesus: Nothing. Jesus: And so, so, at the end of the day Jesus: you can ask me questions about my life, Jesus: in particular the questions about my life Jesus: in all of those gapped years, Jesus: but what proof do you have Jesus: that even what I’m saying about that is even true. Jesus: There’s none, really. Jesus: And until such a time Jesus: as the so called physical evidence Jesus: or the miraculous evidence appears, Jesus: which only appeared in the first century Jesus: after I became At-One with God, Jesus: until such a time Jesus: there’s probably going to be lots of disbelief Jesus: about my claim. Jesus: And, and I can’t see whether that, Jesus: how that cannot be the case. Mary: Yeah. And, and if I could add to that. Mary: I don’t want to take over your interview Geoff. Mary: But I feel that for myself personally, Mary: and I think for AJ also, Mary: we really have absolutely no expectation Mary: that people believe us on these claims. Geoff: No, you don’t seem to care. Mary: Not at all. Mary: And in fact most, Mary: I would say the majority of people in our life Mary: really haven’t resolved the issue for themselves. Jesus: Definitely haven’t. Mary: And. Yeah, it’s not a, it’s not a. Much is. Mary: The media portrayed, Mary: I think somebody counted the amount of times Mary: were shown AJ writing on the board Mary: ‘I’m Jesus, deal with it’. Mary: And, which was shown quite out of context. Mary: And out of context it does seem like Mary: the main trust of what we’re saying is Mary: ‘I’m Jesus and I’m here and you’ve got to deal with it’. Mary: Which is actually not the truth. Jesus: Which was a combination of three years of presentations, Jesus: fifty two presentations a year. Jesus: So after nearly two hundred presentations, Jesus: people were still coming up Jesus: and asking me the identical questions Jesus: they were asking me three years earlier Jesus: about the Jesus issue. Jesus: And I’m just saying, Jesus: ‘Well look, I’m saying I’m Jesus’. Jesus: ‘You’re going to have to deal with that sooner or later’. Jesus: ‘Let’s get on to some other subject that matters’, you know. Mary: Yeah. Geoff: Alright, well let’s get onto another subject that matters. Mary: Sure. Geoff: You talk a lot about emotional clearing, Geoff: as this part of the divine path, Geoff: you have to deal with your emotions. Geoff: Is that true? Geoff: You, you spend a lot of time Geoff: getting people to get in, Geoff: get in touch with their emotions and, Geoff: and you say that ‘this is how, Geoff: this is how they will heal, Geoff: come to good health Geoff: and this is also how they will learn Geoff: what it is to be loving in the divine sense’. Mary: Can I? Jesus: You go first. Mary: I’ll go first and I’m sure you’ll add. Geoff: Is it something that you did in the first century, Geoff: because there’s, there’s, you know? Mary: Not a lot of record. Geoff: There’s not a lot of record of you doing that. Geoff: Is this a new angle or? Mary: New and improved. Jesus: I’d dispute you about the first century for a start, Jesus: but we can talk about that after Mary’s answered. Mary: I feel the process of becoming At-One with God Mary: is the same now as it was then. Mary: And I know that there’s a lot of language I suppose Mary: surrounding us about emotional processing, Mary: clearing emotions, Mary: the different emotions, fear, anger, grief. Mary: And while I feel that’s a really Mary: valuable aspect of what we’re teaching, Mary: for me it’s about a connection to our soul Mary: and a recognition that unless I connect with my soul, Mary: I can’t connect with the creator of my soul Mary: and my soul is inherently emotional. Mary: It’s an emotional construct that God created. Mary: And unfortunately on the planet, Mary: there are a lot of emotions within every soul Mary: that are out of harmony with love. Mary: But in my day to day life, Mary: I don’t really have a focus on emotional processing, Mary: I have a focus on creating a connection with my father, God. Mary: And, and in that process, Mary: I become emotional Mary: and I ask God to remove from me Mary: the emotions which are in error Mary: and in disharmony with love. Mary: Now in the first century that happened Mary: but perhaps the language in which it’s described Mary: and even in the Padgett Messages is a little different Mary: to the language that we use now. Mary: But it is essentially the same process. Mary: For one to, if you think about Mary: emotions like greed and pride and jealousy, Mary: they’re all things mentioned commonly in the bible, I think, Mary: although I not ofay with the bible Mary: as much as perhaps you both are. Mary: The true way to eradicate those things Mary: from our souls is an emotional way. Mary: So it can be done if you like, Mary: from an intellectual sense, Mary: but the injury still exists within our soul. Mary: So that process, Mary: which I was a part of in the first century Mary: of eradicating those things from my soul Mary: was very emotional. Mary: But I didn’t call it emotional processing at the time, you know. Jesus: It was more of a natural feeling. Mary: It’s, it’s a natural feeling and honestly, Mary: the more that I connect to this longing for God, Mary: the process becomes emotional. Mary: And I’m sure many Christians have, Mary: and other people who desire, Jesus: Of all sorts of religions. Mary: A connection to God of all religious Mary: and non-religious, Mary: classical, traditional, religious groupings Mary: would say it is a very emotional experience Mary: when one desires to connect with God. Mary: And I think that the reason we talk about Mary: emotions so commonly is that, Mary: and, and we use perhaps different language, Mary: that we’re trying to present it in a way Mary: that people can use and understand. Mary: For myself, Mary: I feel that in terms of the way Mary: that I’ve been teaching about that is changing, Mary: as I change and understand and remember Mary: my relationship with God in a lot more clarity. Mary: So, in the past I was quite focused on emotions Mary: and, with, with, because I was shut down to this longing to God, Mary: that now I feel pulls me through emotions Mary: and into a lot of joy quite rapidly. Jesus: Yeah. I’d sort of go a bit further than Mary on the issue. Jesus: I feel that, Jesus: I feel one of the major impediments Jesus: that man-kind has today Jesus: is the amount of effort we’ve spent Jesus: shutting down the true condition of our heart. Jesus: So, in other words, Jesus: most people on their, in their day to day life Jesus: falsify their true feelings Jesus: and their true thoughts quite frequently. Jesus: And, and we need somehow Jesus: to help people stop doing Jesus: that so that they become more truthful Jesus: and more open and more honest Jesus: about what they’re really feeling Jesus: and what they’re really thinking. Jesus: And to do that we need to help them understand Jesus: what’s a true emotion and what’s a fabricated emotion. Jesus: And what I mean by that is that, Jesus: emotions like anger, for example, Jesus: are fabrications of a, the denial of a deeper emotion. Jesus: And usually, and it is well known in psychological circles Jesus: that if a person’s angry, Jesus: they’re usually quite afraid of something. Jesus: And in their denial of their fear they, Jesus: they use anger as a method Jesus: of controlling their fear based response. Jesus: And so there does need to be to a degree Jesus: an understanding about emotions Jesus: before a person can really understand Jesus: what it means to be child like Jesus: in the manner in which they express their truth. Jesus: In other words, Jesus: the way they speak the truth and feel it. Jesus: And, and I feel one of the Jesus: primary impediments on the planet Jesus: is that people don’t know how to do that Jesus: because we’ve been so far removed from it. Jesus: And in removing ourselves from that Jesus: we’ve removed ourselves from the way Jesus: in which we connect with God. Jesus: And so for that reason, Jesus: we’ve had to spend a bit of time, Jesus: you know, quite a few years of my time Jesus: has been spent up to this point Jesus: trying to help people work through Jesus: the fact that when they’re angry, Jesus: they’re actually denying something for example. Jesus: And when they’re afraid, Jesus: they’re shutting down other emotions that they actually have. Jesus: When they’re afraid, Jesus: they’re shutting down desires that they actually feel. Jesus: In other words, they’re, Jesus: they’re not doing the things they really want to do Jesus: because they’re afraid. Jesus: And they need to deal with their fears Jesus: and start working through their fears. Mary: If they want to live in their desires. Jesus: If they wanna be, yeah, live in a passionate life. Jesus: And once they can at least start to understand that, Jesus: then they can understand how God is involved in the process. Jesus: They can begin to understand how to connect to God Jesus: and ask for God’s help to deal with these particular emotions. Jesus: Now in the first century, Jesus: I used to talk about that quite frequently. Jesus: I talked about the emotions of individuals. Jesus: And the way that I confronted them Jesus: mostly was by suggesting, suggesting to them Jesus: different actions that would confront those emotions. Jesus: So if, if a man was rich Jesus: and he was very afraid to give up his riches, Jesus: I would suggest to him that he sells everything he has Jesus: and gives it to the poor. Jesus: But if a man was poor, Jesus: then I would make a different suggestion to, Jesus: to confront different emotions. Jesus: If a person had a family Jesus: then I’d make a whole different set of emotions, Jesus: conditions to deal with their emotions. Jesus: And everything I suggested to them Jesus: was about trying to confront their emotional condition. Jesus: When you look at the Padgett Messages, Jesus: I often refer in the Padgett Messages Jesus: my own writings to Padgett, Jesus: to passion, desire, longing and those kind of emotions. Jesus: The importance of having a development Jesus: of passion and soul based longing inside of yourself Jesus: to follow a certain course of action, Jesus: and in this case towards God. Jesus: And so, we are often focusing on Jesus: trying to help the person become Jesus: more passionate, more loving, more, Jesus: you know, more longing in their soul, Jesus: more, more desire. Jesus: And, and this is what we’re trying to do now. Jesus: And the things that shut down desire and passion, Jesus: is primarily fear and grief. Jesus: And our, our fear of our grief Jesus: often is what prevents us from Jesus: living a passionate life in the future. Jesus: We’ve, we’ve had negative things happen in the past Jesus: and that causes us then to be shut down Jesus: to becoming open and passionate, desirous in our future. Jesus: And so those emotions do need to be addressed Jesus: if a persons ever going to become close, Jesus: going to become close to God. Geoff: Ok now, the character of God as, Geoff: as you describe it, Geoff: a lot of new age people who are Geoff: often recovering Christians and recovering Catholics, Geoff: and who have moved into a, Geoff: I guess an understanding of God Geoff: that’s a bit larger than the biblical one, Geoff: they see God as natural law Geoff: and God as the universe, Geoff: and maybe there is something within them Geoff: that is what they might refer to as Divine Spark Geoff: that is going to mature towards this universal power somehow. Geoff: But you refer to God as a being, Geoff: which is very different. Geoff: And you refer to God as the creator Geoff: and that he is a being that we can Geoff: actually have a relationship with. Geoff: And I think a lot of people have Geoff: sort of removed that possibility Geoff: after seeing many people throughout thousands of years Geoff: ask this being for things that weren’t forthcoming. Geoff: And they also look around them Geoff: and they see much beauty in the world Geoff: and they say ‘Yep, there’s God’. Geoff: But they also look around Geoff: and they see much cruelty and a lot of suffering, Geoff: a four year old with cancer for example, Geoff: animals getting eaten alive, you know, by parasites. Geoff: And they think ‘Well, Geoff: what sort of, is this a God place or not’? Geoff: And so, a lot of people say Geoff: ‘Well, I’m having difficulty in believing God Geoff: as a being who created this Geoff: when it’s not a pretty picture down here’. Mary: Geoff, just there’s a problem with your camera. Jesus: Your camera is just a. Geoff: Is it flashing? Ljena: If it’s going to be a long answer Ljena: and it’s three minutes left on the tape. Geoff: Three minutes left of the tape. Mary: Do you have another tape? Geoff: Yeah, I, yep. Mary: Because we can answer. Geoff: Yeah. I’ll just stop it there if you’re happy to keep going. Geoff: I said half an hour, and you’ve been going for an hour. Jesus: No, that’s fine. Geoff: Alright now, new tape. Geoff: Now, you’re answering the question of God being a personal being Geoff: and people having a lot of, Geoff: a lot of trouble coming to terms with that these days. Jesus: The question you’ve asked Jesus: is what I would believe to be the fundamental question Jesus: that every person in the universe needs to ask. Jesus: The reason why I believe it’s the fundamental question Jesus: is that, if, if God is not a personal being that we can connect to, Jesus: then it’s pointless talking about having a relationship with God. Jesus: What’s left is a relationship with people Jesus: or with other, with other creation, Jesus: if you could call it that, Jesus: or other things that have evolved, Jesus: obviously if there’s no, if there’s no creator, Jesus: then there’s got to be a process of creation Jesus: or involvement that has occurred. Jesus: So, so to me it is a fundamental question. Jesus: Another reason why it’s a fundamental question Jesus: is because one of the things I discovered in the first century Jesus: is that most people had a very, very limited view point of God, Jesus: if a view point at all. Jesus: And this is why I feel the majority of people are Jesus: what you would classify as being agnostic. Jesus: In other words, they are very unsettled and uncertain Jesus: about the existence of God in either direction. Jesus: And so they finish up giving up on the issue Jesus: of whether God exists Jesus: and focusing more and more on their personal lives Jesus: and getting happiness in their personal life Jesus: rather than connecting with God. Geoff: Is this a fault of the design? You know, like if. Jesus: No, I don’t believe so. Geoff: Like, like an Atheist might say that if, Geoff: if we are all supposed to be following a divine path, Geoff: why isn’t that path laid out? Jesus: Well it is. Geoff: Well, a little bit more clearly. Jesus: It is. Mary: Yeah, I feel it is. Geoff: And you feel it is? Jesus/Mary: Yeah. Geoff: Yeah. But they don’t. Mary: But I do understand. Sorry. Jesus: Sorry. Do you wanna? Geoff: Go for it Mary. Mary: No, you go. You answer the question. You answer it. Jesus: Because you’re going to get involved in, yeah. Mary: I’m passionate about it as well. Mary: So when you’re finished, Mary: I’ll, if, I’ll say a couple of things. Jesus: Well the, the issue you face. Jesus: If I can answer it logically first is, the, Jesus: the issue we face is this. Jesus: We are perceiving God based on error. Jesus: We, we are coming from our error based condition Jesus: and trying to examine God. Jesus: That’s what man-kind is currently doing. Jesus: And because of that Jesus: what we’re doing is we’re analyzing our environment Jesus: and we’re going ‘If this is what all what God created, Jesus: then, then we can then suppose that this God isn’t a very nice God, Jesus: or God is not interested in us all, Jesus: or God doesn’t exist at all’. Jesus: However, that pre-supposes that what we have currently to examine Jesus: is actually not being modified by humans themselves Jesus: and their own condition. Jesus: And I put to you that actually, Jesus: through the process of physics, Jesus: it’s now been proven that the observer definitely modifies Jesus: the results with regard to anything. Jesus: And this is the problem we face on earth. Jesus: If we continue to examine God Jesus: from the point of view of where we are, Jesus: we are going to continually have a problem with our logic. Jesus: Because our logic is going to be dependent upon Jesus: examining God from this perspective, Jesus: which is only one perspective. Jesus: It’s like looking at that sun from the earth Jesus: and saying ‘well the sun’s that big’. Jesus: When, we could go to the sun, Jesus: and, and we’d find that it’s actually huge, Jesus: huge, far bigger than, than, than Jesus: millions of earths put together. Geoff: Well I guess that compounds the problem, Geoff: because you know, Geoff: we’re looking at documentaries where Geoff: for forty million years all there were trilobites Geoff: and we think ‘Well, what was God doing then’? Geoff: ‘How was he entertained by getting these trilobites animated’? Jesus: Exactly. Exactly. And, Jesus: and then there’s this supposition to that, that, that, Jesus: ‘Oh, if God does exist, Jesus: then why has God allowed these millions of years to pass for, Jesus: for different things to be developed, Jesus: for things to follow a seemingly evolutionary pattern Jesus: that, that scientists to a degree agree upon’. Jesus: And, and so what we finish up with is, Jesus: we finish up with this concept Jesus: that we are going to judge God Jesus: through one of a few different means. Jesus: Firstly, we judge God by what’s happening on earth. Jesus: Secondly, we judge God by religions definition of God. Jesus: And thirdly, we judge God by our own scientific achievements. Jesus: In other words, the understanding, our own scientific understanding in the day. Jesus: Now, now, all of those, Jesus: coming from those three perspectives Jesus: is flawed in logic in every single case. Jesus: If we look at coming from the perspective of God through science, Jesus: we are basically saying that a person who, Jesus: if there is a God who created our body. Jesus: We can’t even understand our body at this point or how it works. Jesus: We have no understanding really about our body Jesus: and how it works physiologically. Jesus: We don’t understand genetics still. Jesus: We don’t understand so many things about the brain. Jesus: In fact, the brain is like a great big unknown Jesus: when it comes to medical science. Jesus: And, and yet, what we’re saying is, Jesus: this body and this brain is capable of, Jesus: of judging the God that created it. Jesus: Now that to me makes no logical sense. Jesus: If we come at God from the position of current religion. Jesus: If we look at religion, Jesus: in every single case, Jesus: religion has been created Jesus: by the emotions of man-kind Jesus: generally to dominate other men and women. Jesus: So it comes from a flawed concept, Jesus: immediately and then it creates or constructs a God Jesus: that is violent, angry, abusive, often genocidal. Jesus: And it constructs a God Jesus: and then imposes that God upon its self, Jesus: the religion that constructed it. Jesus: And, and coming from that perspective, Jesus: I put is flawed, Jesus: because even the most loving person in that religion Jesus: is better than the God they’re worshiping in most cases. Jesus: And so, and so when we examine God from this perspective of science, Jesus: or we examine God from a perspective of religion, Jesus: and what was the first one that I mentioned, Jesus: I can’t remember now, Jesus: the perspective of location, Jesus: in every single time, Jesus: what we’re doing is, Jesus: we are coming from a limited perspective Jesus: trying to examine a God, Jesus: that if, if exists, Jesus: created all of these things Jesus: and therefore would have a far better perspective Jesus: of what, of what is actually going on. Jesus: And then we start to judge it through human suffering. Jesus: And so what we do is we look at the suffering on the planet. Jesus: And we look at the suffering. Jesus: As humans are, humans are by nature quite arrogant. Jesus: Because what we do, Jesus: is we own every achievement that seems to be positive, Jesus: but everything that seems to be negative, Jesus: we blame on somebody else. Jesus: So what we do is we look at the earth and we go Jesus: ‘Oh, these negative things that happen on earth, Jesus: this parasite ate this dog and, Jesus: you know, these kind of things are all happening, Jesus: so that proves to me Jesus: that God created a terrible system or, Jesus: or there is no God’. Jesus: When in reality, it doesn’t place into, Jesus: into the, the pot one major condition. Jesus: And that is, man-kind heavily modifies its own environment Jesus: and then measures God by that environment that it’s modified. Jesus: And that in itself is a flawed position. Jesus: So what I realized in the first century Jesus: was that the way man-kind was examining Jesus: or attempting to examine God Jesus: was very flawed in almost every case. Jesus: And so, what I did is I took a different perspective. Jesus: The perspective I took then was this. Jesus: I said that if there was a God, Jesus: because all we’re trying to do is prove Jesus: whether there is a personal God or not, Jesus: that’s, that’s the basic underlying thing. Jesus: We need to have a way of proving it. Jesus: And what I was suggesting, Jesus: what I suggested to myself was, Jesus: ‘If there is a God who is a personal God, Jesus: it would make logical sense Jesus: that that personal God would give her creation, Jesus: her children, Jesus: a way to connect to her Jesus: to prove to see whether there was this God or not, Jesus: and whether, and what God’s nature was’. Jesus: And it would make sense that, Jesus: that God also showed us the road map Jesus: by showing a relationship between a parent and a child. Jesus: It would make sense to me that, that relationship. Geoff: So in that relationship, Geoff: can God intervene in our circumstances? Geoff: Because we don’t see much evidence of. Geoff: We see a lot of people praying for intervention, Geoff: but we don’t see a lot of evidence of intervention. Jesus: Well, we can get to that question separately, Jesus: because that’s a separate, it is a separate question. Geoff: Ok. Jesus: The, the question of intervention Jesus: is all about who defines what is loving intervention. Jesus: Now man-kind think again in their arrogance Jesus: that they should be able to define what is loving intervention. Jesus: But if you look at most of man-kind’s actions, Jesus: what we often do Jesus: is we create a whole series of negative events Jesus: and then we expect somebody else to come along Jesus: and fix them for us. Jesus: And when that somebody else does come along and fix them for us, Jesus: we then go ahead and create a whole new series of unloving events generally Jesus: and then we want somebody else to come along and fix those for us as well. Jesus: And so this is the problem again Jesus: of examining it from the point of view of intervention. Jesus: Why would God intervene with something Jesus: that man-kind actually created for themselves. Jesus: It would make more sense for a loving person to say, Jesus: ‘No, you created this event, Jesus: you need to learn how to resolve it. Jesus: You need to learn how to become more loving to resolve the issue’. Mary: And that is a loving provision I feel, Mary: that any parent would have for their child. Mary: Like, a loving parent would desire for their child Mary: to learn how to take responsibility for themselves, Mary: for their own soul, Mary: so that they may navigate through life in a loving Mary: and way that serves them and others well. Mary: And I feel that God is the ultimate parent. Mary: Like, God is showing us Mary: and attempting to lovingly teach us Mary: at every moment Mary: how we can grow and take responsibility Mary: and in that process grow towards him. Geoff: Can I give an illustration perhaps? Mary: Sure. Jesus: It sort of suits the situation. Jesus: Most parents give children gifts. Jesus: Now, we might give a child a gift of let say, Jesus: we give it a gift of a little matchbox car Jesus: or something like that. Jesus: Now if that child went out, Jesus: grabbed the matchbox car, Jesus: went out on the ground, Jesus: put it on the ground, Jesus: got out a baseball bat Jesus: and bang, bang, bang, and bashed it into pieces, Jesus: and then come back to the parent crying Jesus: and saying “I want another matchbox car”, Jesus: the parent would probably very seriously consider Jesus: whether it should give it a second matchbox car Jesus: under those circumstances. Jesus: Because the parent will be going, Jesus: ‘Well hang on a sec, Jesus: you just went out and smashed up the matchbox car Jesus: that I just gave you as a gift. Jesus: How about you first sort out why you did that Jesus: before I give you another one’. Jesus: At least most parents would probably want to do that. Jesus: And we, human kind has become like that child. Jesus: We’ve become like a child Jesus: who has received a whole series of gifts, right, Jesus: and then in the process of receiving those series of gifts, Jesus: have bashed them into smithereens Jesus: and then went back to our parent pleading for it to get more. Jesus: When the reality is that, Jesus: that the parents got to say , Jesus: ‘No, hang on a sec, Jesus: let’s work through the issue first Jesus: of why you decided to smash everything up first Jesus: and then we’ll look at giving you some more’. Mary: It’s certainly not the case that Mary: you never having any matchbox cars in punishment. Mary: It’s, it’s the principle that in order to appreciate Mary: and really enjoy the matchbox car, you have to love it. Jesus: And we need to learn how to love you see. Jesus: So, so, so what we need to do, Jesus: is we need to start coming to terms with the fact Jesus: that we are often being unloving Jesus: and then blaming other people for our actions. Jesus: And in particular, we’re, we’re adept at blaming God. Jesus: And so what we finish up doing is we go, Jesus: ‘God’s this or God’s that or God’s done this or God’s done that’. Jesus: When the reality is that human kind Jesus: have made a lot of unloving choices. Jesus: And as a result of making a lot of unloving choices Jesus: have finished up becoming these people Jesus: who then want somebody else to sort all of their unloving choices out. Jesus: And, and God is always waiting for us to sort ourselves out Jesus: and gives us lots and lots of help in doing so, Jesus: as long as we are willing to go through that process of sorting things out. Jesus: I’m sorry, I just a. Mary: Just a few visitors. Jesus: We’ve got a few visitors. Mary: I think Igor’s. Jesus: Yeah, we’ll, we’ll just proceed here, because I want to proceed. Jesus: None of the others have arranged anything with me, so that’s fine. Jesus: So, so what we need to do is separate the question as to God’s existence Jesus: from what’s actually happening on the earth. Jesus: Because what’s happening on the earth, Jesus: is the direct result of man-kind’s desire to act out of harmony with love, Jesus: with each other and with the environment. Jesus: So let’s separate the two. Jesus: So let’s now look at whether God exists or not. Jesus: Now there is a simple test. Jesus: And the simple test is this. Jesus: If I have a longing to receive God’s love Jesus: and my longing to receive God’s love is pure, Jesus: in other words, it’s not tainted by addiction Jesus: or demand or anger or rage or fear or neediness, Jesus: but it’s actually a pure desire, Jesus: and if I have this pure desire for God’s love, Jesus: then what will happen is I will receive it. Jesus: And in the moment of receiving it, Jesus: I will be able to prove God’s existence or not Jesus: as an individual being or not. Jesus: If I then allow to go through my mind, Jesus: God is not an individual being but a nebulous force, Jesus: and then see whether I still feel the same emotion or not from God, Jesus: then I’ll know whether God is a nebulous force Jesus: or an individual being or not. Jesus: It’ll be just a simple matter of connecting to God in each case. Jesus: Perhaps we just need to pause. Geoff: So you’re not married? Mary: No. No. Not yet. We might get married. Geoff: Do you believe in marriage? Jesus: It depends on how you view it Jesus: because we were married once before. Mary: Exactly. Like, we’re not Mary: and we both have the viewpoint that marriage Mary: is a condition in your heart. Jesus: And I’ve said to Mary that Jesus: I don’t know whether we will get married Jesus: until we start confronting all of these religious view points of marriage. Mary: Yeah. Geoff: What about gay marriage, do you believe in gay marriage? Jesus: Certainly. Geoff: Certainly. Mary: Yeah. Well it’s the same concept, you know. Mary: I feel that it’s a condition in the person’s heart. Mary: Are you married? Geoff: Yeah. Mary: And does your wife share your passion Mary: about God or matters relating to God? Geoff: Oh no, not really, no, no. Geoff: But we think fairly similarly. Yeah. Yeah. So. Mary: But it’s just a particular kind of interest of yours. Geoff: Well, I had, I had more of an environment Geoff: where I grew up in a church background. Geoff: So, sort of like the difference between you and AJ. Jesus: You know, AJ’s got that biblical knowledge. Mary: He’s got the biblical knowledge. Geoff: Because of his background. Mary: But I would say, but we share the passion obviously. Geoff: But you still have the same passion. Mary: For God. Jesus: Well, I suppose there’s another thing. Jesus: And that is, in the spirit world, Jesus: you were never really involved Jesus: very much in the biblical side of things. Jesus: Like, where as I was, I was often like, Luke, Jesus: more fascinated in, like, how, Jesus: how it came about the modifications. Mary: The bible and all of those things. Jesus: Yeah. So, I’ve often took more of an interest in it. Geoff: So do you think that some people get a head start on, Geoff: on their understanding? Geoff: Like, like, you had a realization when you were say eighteen, Geoff: you said when in the first century. Geoff: You knew you were different. Geoff: What gave you the head start? Geoff: What, what gave you that difference? Geoff: Like, when I was fourteen for some reason, Geoff: I decided to recite Desiderata. Geoff: I have no idea why a fourteen year old would want, Geoff: would be interested in Desiderata, Geoff: which is a philosophical words of wisdom, Geoff: that was actually written in the 1920’s, Geoff: not 1690’s as written on the paper. Geoff: Now, you know, I was different. Geoff: What makes people different from, from? Jesus: Well, God’s given us all unique personality Jesus: that is all a part of the appropriate way of. Jesus: The way that God wants the universe to operate Jesus: is that each of us fully engage our uniqueness. Jesus: And in fully engaging our uniqueness, Jesus: each of us will have a part to play in our universe that is unique. Jesus: So, so the way God designed the universe Jesus: was in such a way that each of us Jesus: would be fully involved by actually embracing our unique individual passion Jesus: and then following that passion with, with a passion. And. Geoff: So, has this design worked? Jesus: Yeah. Certainly. Geoff: Ok. So there is no design fault? Jesus: No. When. And, and it’s interesting. Jesus: The more developed in love you become, Jesus: the more you realize there is no design fault. Jesus: It’s, it’s only when we are operating Jesus: out of harmony with the laws of love and the principles of truth, Jesus: that we are butting our heads against the brick wall of God’s laws. Jesus: And in butting our heads against the brick wall of God’s laws, Jesus: we get bleeding sores on ourselves which is the result of our own, Jesus: which is the result of our own stubbornness. Geoff: But surely an, a, an almighty foreseeing omnipotent being Geoff: would have known that that was going to happen? Jesus: Of course, that’s why she created such a universe that, Jesus: that we would have feedback through the process of, of suffering. Geoff: So I think a lot of people, they, Geoff: they hear religious people talk about what God intended Geoff: and, and they think ‘Well, well wait a minute, Geoff: that very phrase implies a mistake was made’. Jesus: That’s exactly right. Geoff: It does. Jesus: And the reality is that Jesus: I don’t believe that anything that is currently happening Jesus: is not what, that, that God did not foresee it. Jesus: Because all of God’s laws are, are completely, Jesus: not only beautiful in their operation, Jesus: but are, are completely without fault if you examine them carefully. Jesus: And in, in the beauty of the law, Jesus: there is always a correction. Jesus: And we are as humanity, Jesus: we are going through this process of correction. Jesus: Now anybody who goes through a process of correction Jesus: is going to have emotional challenges, Jesus: because they are going to want to hold onto their error inside of themselves. Jesus: And, and, and so the universe at large Jesus: is, is wanting them to have the corrected view point. Jesus: And so what’s going to happen Jesus: is there’s going to be discrepancy Jesus: between their emotional condition or their error Jesus: and the correct view point that’s universal. Jesus: And we’re doing as a human race Jesus: is we’re often butting our heads against the correct view point, Jesus: because we want to retain our error. Jesus: We want to retain the false position Jesus: or the position that’s unloving Jesus: and hope that God somehow Jesus: comes to our unloving position, you know, our unloving position. Jesus: And of course that’s never going to happen. Jesus: And so, with God, we’re butting ourselves up against a brick wall basically. Jesus: Now when I say a brick wall, Jesus: I’m saying that all of God’s laws are immoveable Jesus: because they’re all perfect Jesus: and they don’t need to be moved. Jesus: And so what we need to do Jesus: is come to see how we’re out of harmony with those laws Jesus: and once we get into harmony with these laws, Jesus: what we find is that sort of supercharges our life. Jesus: Because now we’re bringing things into harmony with God’s laws. Jesus: All of God’s laws are now working with us in our accomplishments, Jesus: rather than working to correct us from our way wood path. Jesus: And, and in the first century I gave many illustrations of this, you know. Jesus: Even the, the whole illustration of the prodigal son, Jesus: is all about the prodigal son Jesus: coming up against the loving laws of God Jesus: and, and then realizing down the track Jesus: that he had, had transgressed against those laws. Jesus: And, and then changed himself Jesus: to a point where he now didn’t want to do that anymore. Jesus: He wanted to act more lovingly. Jesus: And this is the problem the whole of the humanity faces really. Jesus: Is to, is, are we going to continually Jesus: butt ourselves up against the brick wall Jesus: of, of these laws Jesus: and, and then say Jesus: ‘God’s at fault because I’m in pain Jesus: because I’ve just butted these laws’. Jesus: Or we’re going to say Jesus: ‘Wow, I’ve got pain Jesus: and a loving God’s not going to create pain for me Jesus: unless I’m in error somewhere that, that I’m, I’m actually’. Mary: I’m creating. Jesus: ‘I’m creating it by butting my head against the wall’. Jesus: It’s a bit like us going up to a wall, Jesus: butting our head against the wall Jesus: and then complaining that the builder put the wall there. Jesus: And that’s what we do all the time with God. Jesus: We, we go up to the wall, Jesus: butt our heads against the wall, Jesus: when it’s bleeding, we say Jesus: ‘Oh, I’m suffering and I’m in pain, why did you put the wall there’? Jesus: And we don’t trust that actually God is a loving God Jesus: and put every wall that is constructed in the universe, Jesus: is constructed for a loving reason. Jesus: And we don’t trust that. Mary: It’s, it’s like you referred to earlier about arrogance. Mary: It’s the major issue of humanity at the time Mary: is saying ‘I know what’, Mary: at this time I feel, is saying Mary: ‘I know what is loving Mary: and therefore the wall is in error. Mary: It takes a lot of humility, I feel, Mary: to acknowledge that there is a loving God Mary: who knows more about love than I do Mary: and so if I’m against a wall, Mary: perhaps the humble thing is to look at myself Mary: and not at the wall. Mary: I feel that, that with more humility, Mary: people would find the path to God Mary: much more intuitive and natural. Mary: But it’s this strong self-reliance Mary: that is so instilled in so many of us, Mary: that means that we don’t even want to see that there’s a wall. Yeah. Jesus: By the time we get to be an adult, Jesus: unfortunately what’s happened to the majority of us, Jesus: is we’ve lost a lot of the traits of a child. Jesus: A lot of the traits of a child Jesus: are to trust something until it’s proven untrustworthy. Jesus: As an adult, we don’t trust anything until it’s proven trustworthy. Jesus: So, we take almost entirely the opposite tact as an adult Jesus: than we would as a child. Mary: Even as an adult, we see trust as a sign of weakness, don’t we? Jesus: Exactly. Mary: Rather than saying ‘No, I can discern things, Mary: I can trust and then I can decide not to trust. Mary: We, we feel that somehow. Jesus: There’s so much fear in it. Mary: Yeah and often that is because Mary: emotionally we’ve been invested in trusting something Mary: rather than trusting something from a space of Mary: not-investment, if you like. Yeah. Jesus: So what, what we often doing is that we have, have; Jesus: as an adult, Jesus: we’ve reversed a lot of these child like traits Jesus: that would assist us in, Jesus: in coming to terms very rapidly as to whether there is a God, Jesus: whether that God is a personal being or not, Jesus: whether the God is just an energy source, Jesus: and all of those questions would be very rapidly answered Jesus: with some very simple tests. Jesus: But unfortunately as adults, Jesus: what we try to do is complicate our testing process Jesus: because we think we’re more intelligent than that Jesus: and we believe it should be harder than it actually is. Jesus: Whereas, if we, if we just thought as a child would think, Jesus: a child would go, ‘well’, you know, Jesus: and any child that’s quite young would go ‘my mummy and daddy’. Jesus: They don’t automatically assume mummy and daddy doesn’t love them. Jesus: They automatically assume mummy and daddy love them. Jesus: So, why would not I automatically assume that God loves me, Jesus: rather than coming from a perspective that God doesn’t love me Jesus: and then taking that as the primary assumption. Jesus: So what I’m trying to get at Jesus: is that we are often assuming things about God Jesus: that prevent us from determining the truth about God. Jesus: And then we’re, we’re using those assumptions as facts Jesus: because we no longer have a connection with the God, Jesus: that’s impossible to have while we’re making those assumptions. Jesus: And, and, and this is where we’re doing all things back to front. Jesus: If we allow ourselves the, Jesus: the possibility that God is a being that connects, Jesus: that is our creator, like our mother or our father, Jesus: that could connect to us in love, Jesus: then it becomes a simple question – Jesus: Well, if I’m not receiving that love Jesus: or I don’t feel loved by that God, Jesus: then perhaps there’s something going on inside of me Jesus: that’s preventing that love from flowing, Jesus: rather than something inside of God. Jesus: For most of us, Jesus: what we do is we blame God for not loving us, Jesus: when the reality is actually more along the lines Jesus: that we need to look at ourselves Jesus: as to why we’re not feeling loved. Jesus: Because the logical thing is that Jesus: if there is a God that is our creator, Jesus: then that God would surely love us. Jesus: If the God was loving enough to create a beautiful body for us, Jesus: a body that’s focused on our receiving pleasure. Jesus: You look at even the processes of Jesus: eating, drinking, sexual behavior, Jesus: all of these different things, Jesus: the body itself that that God has created Jesus: is all focused on trying to assist us Jesus: to enjoy our life more passionately Jesus: and have more joy and, and enjoyment of our life. Jesus: And then to assume that God mustn’t be interested in our joy, Jesus: is, is like, almost two totally opposite assumptions. Jesus: And, and this is where I feel man-kind makes the basic primary mistake. Jesus: In the first century, Jesus: this is the reason, I, Jesus: I feel why I was the first person to enter that condition Jesus: is because instead of trying to get all this intellectual philosophy about God, Jesus: I just started from a child’s perspective of its parent, Jesus: and just assumed that if I didn’t, Jesus: if I wasn’t in this state where I felt loved, Jesus: then it had to do with something that I believed, Jesus: rather than something that God was. Jesus: And, and I found through that process of that, Jesus: just that simple one assumption, Jesus: that not only did I have proven to me through that process God’s existence, Jesus: but I had proven to me what God’s laws were. Jesus: And, and I finished up receiving knowledge from that God Jesus: of all these different things Jesus: that the average person around me didn’t receive, Jesus: because they didn’t have the same Jesus: basic child like assumption right at the beginning. Jesus: Which was that there is a God that loves me Jesus: and is willing to tell me everything I want to know. Geoff: Yep. So as, as your character achieved At-Onement, Geoff: you discovered that killing was wrong, would you say? Jesus: Oh, way before then. Geoff: Way before. You don’t believe in killing? Jesus: Yeah. No. I, I discovered when I was eighteen or nineteen Jesus: that killing, way before then. Geoff: What about animals? Jesus: Animals the same. Jesus: When I, when I was thirteen years of age, Jesus: my father in the first century took me to the temple. Jesus: And there was blood from the animals Jesus: squealing and carrying on with the slaughter, Jesus: from so-called sacrifices to God. Jesus: There was blood running down the sides of the streets Jesus: from these animals that stunk to high heaven. Jesus: And also had, I could just feel the fear of the animals. Jesus: And immediately I became a, a vegetarian Jesus: in the first century from that one thing. Jesus: Because it just felt so unloving. Jesus: I was totally disgusted with the whole operation of the temple at the time. Geoff: So, so total non-violence to people and animals? Jesus: Yes. Mary: And that includes emotional violence. Geoff: Emotional violence? Mary: Do you understand what I mean by that? Jesus: So in other words, Jesus: there’s no need for me to be angry with you. Jesus: If I’m angry with you, Jesus: there’s something I need to address within me, Jesus: no matter what you’re doing. Geoff: And non materialistic? Jesus: No, we live in a materialist, we live in a material world, Jesus: so I wouldn’t call us non-materialist. Jesus: I would say more along the lines of, Jesus: we’re more concerned about Jesus: living in harmony with love with the material world. Jesus: So in other words, Jesus: we recognize the need of a material world Jesus: for a material person to live in, Jesus: we also recognize there is a spiritual world Jesus: and soul based worlds as well. Jesus: And, and for us we live in all of them concurrently, Jesus: we talk to all of them concurrently and so forth. Jesus: But, but living in the material world Jesus: is a necessity for material people. Jesus: But it needs to be done in a loving and, Jesus: and harmonious manner. Jesus: It can’t be done in a way that destroys the environment Jesus: and is non-sustainable. Geoff: Your, your obviously not desiring wealth. Jesus: No. Geoff: That’s, that’s not one of your desires. Geoff: A lot of people say Geoff: ‘Oh this guys trying to manipulate people Geoff: so he can get donations from all over the world Geoff: and he can fester his nest’. Geoff: But it doesn’t look apparent that you’ve. Jesus: No. You know, I’m perfectly happy Jesus: to receive millions of dollars of donations, Jesus: but I’ll probably spend them on furthering the. Mary: The, the information, giving the information. Jesus: This information. Mary: That’s, I would say eighty percent of, Mary: of what we receive, would you say? Jesus: More than that probably. Mary: More than that goes into creating free DVD’s, Mary: travelling us to seminars. Mary: And we cloth ourselves Mary: and we feed ourselves vegan food in the process. Jesus: Yeah, but we don’t live extravagantly. Geoff: You made a comment that you were tearing down your fences too. Geoff: Which I found interesting because in one of the, Geoff: in John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’, Geoff: I think he summed up three things Geoff: that would help with world peace. Geoff: And one was no borders Geoff: and which is something that I think a lot of people would agree. Jesus: Yeah, I believe strongly in no borders Jesus: from a country perspective or an individual perspective. Jesus: So, you know, one of the reasons why we’re taking down the fences Jesus: is we don’t see any need to protect the, our location. Jesus: But also we see fences as a way of control Jesus: and we don’t believe control is a very good way of developing love. Geoff: And your also critical of religion Geoff: because it does the same thing really. Geoff: It has borders in your opinion, Geoff: it is set up for control reasons. Jesus: Yes, I’m, I’m perfectly happy to see, like, Jesus: thousands of religions, Jesus: as long as those religions practice natural love with each other. Jesus: In other words they don’t fight and bicker Jesus: and blame each other and, and, and almost, Jesus: well many in historically have murdered each other Jesus: just because they had different belief systems. Jesus: Now that’s obviously out of harmony with love. Jesus: So, so I’m perfectly happy for a whole set, Jesus: a religion to have it’s own desires and way of life, Jesus: as long as those desires and way of life are actually in harmony with truth. Geoff: So you’re, you’re probably a little bit disappointed with the, Geoff: the religion that was created in your name? Jesus: I don’t know if you could say that I’m disappointed Jesus: because I never created the religion for a start. Jesus: So there are people who came long time after my life on earth Jesus: who decided to create the religion. Jesus: They had their own agendas at work. Jesus: I wasn’t surprised Jesus: because with anything that’s happened on the earth, Jesus: it’s usually gotten highly distorted Jesus: through the amalgamation of religion and politics on the planet. Geoff: So where has it got it right? Geoff: Where has Christianity got it right? Jesus: Well when it talks about grace, the grace of God, Jesus: and when it talks about being loving to all persons on the planet, Jesus: it’s definitely got it right. Jesus: When it talks about, you know, separation, and, Jesus: and condemning certain people of certain race Jesus: or certain sexuality or certain gender and all of those, Jesus: then it’s definitely got it wrong. Mary: And I feel it’s got it wrong around the area of Mary: sacrifice meaning love and love meaning sacrifice, Mary: which is a pretty core tenant Mary: as far as I understand from the outside. Mary: I’ve never been. Geoff: Well it’s the first quote Geoff: that you get from the proselytizing Christian, Geoff: is that Jesus died for your sins. Jesus/Mary: Yes. Jesus: Yeah. And that’s not the truth. Geoff: That’s not the truth. Jesus: No. And, and it can never be the truth Jesus: because it’s not fair Jesus: and everything God does is fair. Jesus: So it’s not fair for a person who’s never, Jesus: who’s been without sin Jesus: or purportedly been without sin I should say, Jesus: it’s not fair for such a person Jesus: to pay the penalties for all the sinners. Jesus: It’s like if you had three children of your own Jesus: and two of the children were unruly radicals Jesus: who basically were quite violent Jesus: and the third child was peace loving Jesus: and kind and considerate and compassionate, Jesus: you wouldn’t grab that compassionate, considerate third child Jesus: and punish it for the deeds of the other two. Jesus: And yet Christians are saying that’s exactly what God’s doing Jesus: and it doesn’t make any logical sense. Jesus: Because it actually puts the average person on earth Jesus: in a better condition of love that God is, Jesus: if you believe what the Christians are saying. Geoff: And so then it’s these doctrines and these creeds Geoff: that people have sworn allegiance to Geoff: that are holding them in that place. Jesus: Yes, but, but it’s very important to understand Jesus: that any doctrine or creed has only been created Jesus: to support a certain emotional position. Jesus: So, so for example, Jesus: you would not be able to accept a belief inside of you Jesus: unless there was some predisposition emotionally Jesus: for you to accept such a belief. Jesus: Now, if can illustrate that. Jesus: If, if you believe that somehow Jesus: a person who loves you also punishes you, Jesus: then you will be open to a belief Jesus: that God can love you and punish you at the same time. Jesus: But if you didn’t believe that a person Jesus: who attempts to punish you loves you, Jesus: then you wouldn’t be able to accept Jesus: that there would be a God Jesus: who punishes you and loves you at the same time. Jesus: It’s just our emotional openness to certain belief systems Jesus: that create and perpetrate those belief systems Jesus: that are out of harmony with love. Jesus: And what we need to do Jesus: and this why it is important to talk about emotions, Jesus: because what we need to do is we look at, Jesus: we need to look instead; instead of going Jesus: ‘I want God to be a wrathful God’, Jesus: we need to say ‘Well what is God really’? Jesus: ‘Is God a wrathful God? Jesus: Because logically it would make sense to me Jesus: that if God was wrathful God, we’d all be dead. Jesus: Like, because sooner or latter Jesus: all of us probably annoyed God at some point, right, Jesus: and we’d all be dead. Jesus: And if God was a wrathful God, Jesus: it doesn’t make much sense to me. Jesus: But, but we need to say that rather than, Jesus: rather than going ‘I want God to be a wrathful God Jesus: because I want God to punish all those people Jesus: that I’m not allowed to punish’. Jesus: And, and we need to stop imposing Jesus: our own unhealed condition upon God Jesus: and also imposing our unhealed condition Jesus: upon other people on the planet. Jesus: We need to start owning it, that, Jesus: ‘wow, yeah, I’ve got a really unloving emotion inside of me, Jesus: which is I want other people to be punished Jesus: for what they’ve done towards me’. Jesus: And I need to heal that within me and stop that. Jesus: I need to stop the concept. Geoff: So what the, what is the best way for people to heal that emotion? Geoff: Once they discover that they have this emotion, Geoff: that, whether it was instilled by their parents Geoff: or whether it was from a trauma as a child, Geoff: how will they go about getting rid of that emotion? Jesus: Well the simplest way is to firstly Jesus: talk to God about the truth of it. Jesus: In other words. Geoff: What if they don’t even know the truth of it? Geoff: What if they were so young they’re not able to process the truth of it? Jesus: No, no. I’m not talking about the truth of the emotion Jesus: in the way that you’re thinking. Jesus: I’m saying the truth of acknowledging what they really fell right now. Geoff: Ok. Jesus: So, so for example, if I really, really feel angry with Geoff right now, Jesus: instead of me trying to make out that I’m not angry with Geoff, Jesus: I need to own, ‘I am angry with Geoff’. Jesus: That’s going to help me get one step further Jesus: into getting closer to the emotion. Jesus: And then I could ask myself, Jesus: ‘Well, why am I angry with Geoff’? Jesus: ‘I’ve only just met the man’. Jesus: ‘What’s going on’? Jesus: You know, like, like, ‘what, what, Jesus: what inside of me or what inside of him Jesus: rubs me up the wrong way to cause me to feel this anger’. Jesus: ‘And I’m angry anyway, that’s not his problem, Jesus: it’s my problem, Jesus: so I need to look at what’s going on inside of me that would cause me’. Jesus: So I need to have some degree of self analysis, Jesus: some degree of honest appraisement of my own condition Jesus: before I’ll be willing to honestly examine anything further. Jesus: Once I can do that, Jesus: I can start actually longing to God Jesus: to show me what the error is. Jesus: And whenever I’ve done that in my own life and Jesus: Mary’s had the same experience Jesus: all through her two thousand years of life too, Jesus: whenever we’ve done that of just longing to God to show us, Jesus: within a few moments generally Jesus: we’re shown what the problem is. Jesus: And usually it’s a problem that comes from Jesus: our own unhealed emotional state somewhere in our past Jesus: or a belief system that’s in us that’s out of harmony with love. Geoff: So you don’t have this perfect harmonious relationship Geoff: where you’re forgiving all the time Geoff: and so you have quarrels Geoff: and arguments and a, or a you? Mary: Well, we come from the premise. Geoff: You sort things out? Jesus: Once we became At-One with God Jesus: after the first century in the spirit world. Mary: Then no. Jesus: Then we never had any arguments anymore. Jesus: So we’ve had, like, Jesus: if you look at our life of two thousand years, Jesus: probably nineteen hundred years of it’s been argument free. Right. Jesus: But, but in the first century, before, when I met Mary. Mary: Certainly. Jesus: We certainly had disagreements and, Jesus: and we had disagreements up to my time of passing. Jesus: I, I didn’t have any anger in them, Jesus: but Mary sometimes did at the time. Jesus: Because again I had a head start on Mary in the first century Jesus: in terms of working my way through my own things. Jesus: I met Mary when I was in my thirties in the first century, Jesus: whereas I’d been working on my own condition Jesus: since I was eighteen in the first century, Jesus: or even earlier than that actually. Jesus: So, so I had the chance to sort out a lot of myself. Mary: And, ok, yep. Jesus: At that time and Mary hadn’t. Mary: Yeah. Jesus: And in this life it’s very similar. Jesus: So, so I feel more forgiving perhaps than, Jesus: than Mary does at this point in time. Jesus: But, but that being, we’re basically both working progress. Jesus: So there are times when we disagree with each other. Geoff: So you were, you actually said that in, Geoff: in one thing that I was watching, Geoff: that Mary’s death and her situation of a, Geoff: on the earth was far more severe than your death. Jesus: Yes. Geoff: And a. Jesus: I only took a few hours to die, about six hours to die. Jesus: Whereas Mary, Mary took many days to die Jesus: and was tortured in that time. Mary: Three or four, I think. Jesus: Yeah. Geoff: Three or four. Mary: Yep. Yep. Geoff: And you have a memory of that now? Mary: Yep. Yeah. I do. Geoff: That must be fairly painful memory? Mary: It is. And it’s, Mary: well it’s probably something that started when I was fifteen. Mary: And I found too perplexing and I filed it. Mary: And now, yeah, now I’m more open to that emotional experience. Mary: It’s quite, it’s been terrifying, Mary: traumatic, shocking and shameful. Mary: All kinds of emotions that come with it. Yeah. Mary: As with all our allowance of emotion however, Mary: because I’m still afraid of that process, Mary: I often allow it for a few days Mary: and then I shut down in my fear. Mary: Because, as you would possibly understand, Mary: it’s quite physiologically confusing as well. Mary: And certainly this issue of resolving identity Mary: is something that AJ has been through a long process really, Mary: haven’t you babe, of years Mary: to come to a point where he can just speak openly, Mary: clearly, freely about any aspect of it. Mary: And for myself, I often. Geoff: Have some difficulty. Mary: Difficulty expressing. Mary: And feels very personal Mary: a lot of the emotions that I’m experiencing and, Mary: and there’s still this physiological struggle that I’m going through. Mary: And it’s not just an issue around the memories. Mary: It’s also, Mary: I guess that’s what I wanted to say earlier Mary: when you were speaking to AJ about how he knows. Mary: For myself, I feel I’ve reached a place of knowing Mary: but I still rebel against that at times. Mary: And it’s not just that I know because of, Mary: because I remember everything, Mary: because at this stage I don’t remember everything. Mary: I remember fair portions of a lot of things, Mary: but because I’m still in this process of opening myself emotionally, Mary: I don’t remember everything. Mary: But there is also the, the issue of. Geoff: But you have no doubt whatsoever about? Mary: About who I am. Geoff: Where that memory comes from. Mary: No. No. Mary: And especially when I’m allowing, Mary: allowing the memory, if you like. Mary: And that’s what I wanted to say earlier, is that. Jesus: You’d prefer to have some doubt, wouldn’t you? Mary: Yes. And we’re speaking earlier about emotional investment in beliefs, Mary: and I’ve searched myself high and wide and low to find my. Jesus: An alternative. Mary: What would be an emotional investment in this belief, Mary: because honestly, and I can’t find one. Mary: But I feel that our certainty in life, Mary: in, in any knowledge comes Mary: when we’re willing to expose and Mary: allow whatever emotion is associated Mary: with whatever we’re being presented with. Mary: I don’t know if you agree with that? Mary: It’s not a, I’ve never really verbalized that before but. Mary: And so, like when these emotions first started happening for me, Mary: I didn’t take that as proof that this was true. Mary: And it certainly wasn’t a sudden download, Mary: yes I know this to be truth. Mary: It’s been a long process for me Mary: and at times a struggle to, Mary: to allow what is so overwhelmingly real for me. Mary: And then to come out the end of it and realise what that means. Mary: And also I’ve have felt I need to go through a process of discerning Mary: what is actually happening. Mary: Like, is this a spirit communication that’s happening for me Mary: or is there some other childhood event Mary: that I’m somehow now attaching to this emotional experience. Mary: And, and I resolved some time ago that it wasn’t, Mary: unless, unless I fully allowed the emotional experience, Mary: with an openness to what, Mary: to what the truth may be, Mary: not an attachment to what it is, Mary: that I would come to truth Mary: and it would be a process Mary: and not a single event that would Mary: that would bring me to a firm conclusion. Mary: And that’s certainly what has happened and is happening. Jesus: And that’s also what happened for me to. Jesus: Like obviously, because I begun the process Jesus: much earlier than Mary has, Jesus: I’ve had a lot more time in that process. Jesus: And so therefore, I have a larger degree, Jesus: you know, I have a degree of certainty. Jesus: I have a certainty now. Mary: You’re certain and you’re articulate. Jesus: Yeah. Whereas, Jesus: whereas if you asked me sort of five or six years ago Jesus: when I was in the beginning of that process, Jesus: then you know, there were times when I went, Jesus: cycled in the same manner that Mary has done in the past, you know. Mary: And there’s been many times when I’ve just gone Mary: ‘No, this, this can’t be the truth and it seems so bizarre and so’. Jesus: And fear is usually those times. Jesus: It’s usually because we’re. Jesus: Like in my case, when I was, Jesus: when I was afraid of what other people would think of me, Jesus: and I was afraid of what they’d say, Jesus: and I was afraid of being attacked, Jesus: and I was afraid of you know, being treated badly by my family, Jesus: and so forth, Jesus: you know, then I preferred to not, Jesus: to not say anything about who I am, Jesus: and you know, I decided, Jesus: I went through a period of time and decided Jesus: I just want to live alone in the woods somewhere Jesus: and just leave the whole issue alone, you know. Mary: And that has really been my desire. Mary: Like, ‘babe, I’m ok, I love this path, it’s wonderful, Mary: can we talk to everyone about this, what we, Mary: about God and how to connect to God and yourself, Mary: but could we just not talk about who we are’. Mary: And a little while ago, Mary: I realized that there’s an issue of truth involved, you know. Mary: How am I being honest with you Mary: if I sit and tell you all those things Mary: and guard this belief that I have inside of me from you. Mary: Immediately I’m setting up a sense of dishonesty about who I am Mary: and so this is really what has made me Mary: take the step to be more public about my experience. Mary: Because certainly I’ve had a lot of fear about that as well. Mary: And a fear that maybe I can’t trust myself. Mary: And AJ certainly not reassuring. Mary: He’s like, ‘no you’ve got to trust yourself’. Jesus: Yeah, I don’t. I don’t feed. Jesus: See a lot of people believe that, Jesus: that I somehow feed Mary all of these things Jesus: and then Mary has to believe that to be with me. Jesus: It’s actually quite the opposite. Mary: Yeah, no. Jesus: Like, Mary’s had to go through her own experience, Jesus: and every time she tries to involve me in it, Jesus: I say ‘Babe, it’s your experience, Jesus: you’ve got to work your way through, Jesus: you know, who you are’. Jesus: ‘I don’t have to work my way through you are’. Jesus: ‘I already think I know who you are, Jesus: like I already feel who you are’. Jesus: ‘You’ve got to work through that’. Jesus: And so for that reason, it’s quite a, Jesus: it’s quite a personal experience until, until. Jesus: And the more you embrace that personal experience, Jesus: the closer you get to the truth, Jesus: like, whatever the truth is, even if it’s not. Jesus: And you know, if we, if we weren’t Mary and Jesus, Jesus: then that truth would become exposed through this process. Mary: And, and I feel, I believe that very strongly. Mary: And I said to someone recently, Mary: you know, really I’m living in integrity in what I believe. Mary: And I’m very conscious of what is love and, Mary: and where I’m in error around love. Mary: I’m speaking as honestly and openly as, Mary: as my soul allows right now. Mary: If at some time, and I can’t imagine, Mary: but if at some time in the future it became revealed, Mary: like, it, it was exposed to me through my own experience or, Mary: through yeah, through my own experience that I’m not Mary Magdalene, Mary: I would spend double the amount of time Mary: that I’ve spent speaking to people about that fact, Mary: to correct that error. Mary: Because I have no desire to be someone that I’m not Mary: and I’ve no desire to mislead people about that. Mary: So I, I take it very seriously Mary: and because I feel it’s an issue of love, Mary: just as my being open with you about what I feel is an issue of love, Mary: if I then felt something else and I’d mislead you or Mary: I’d communicated with you in a way that wasn’t true, Mary: I’d really want you to, to learn about that. Mary: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if I’m articulating that well, but. Geoff: No. No, that’s good. Geoff: All right, well thank you very much. Geoff: We could probably go on forever. Geoff: We’ll have to stop at some stage. Geoff: Well thank you very much for just for the benefit of the, Geoff: the tape there. Geoff: You two don’t know me from a bar of soap. Jesus: No. No. Geoff: This is not something you set up. Jesus/Mary: No. Geoff: I’ve come out of my own interest and fascination with you. Geoff: And you’ve welcomed me into your compound, Geoff: which doesn’t look much like a compound. Geoff: And you’ve fed me lunch. Geoff: And you’re very. Geoff: I’m very much appreciative. So thanks very much. Jesus: Thanks Geoff. Mary: Thank you Geoff. It’s lovely to meet you Mary: and I’m glad that we took the opportunity to get to know you as well. Jesus: Yeah, we, we like catching up with all new faces, hey. Jesus: And, and we don’t feel much fear about doing so generally. Jesus: So, yeah we enjoy the process of. Geoff: I could have been an axe wielding murderer, you never know. Mary: Well, I. Geoff: You trust it. Mary: Trusted. And I trusted also my feelings from your emails, so. Jesus: Yeah. We, we don’t. We sort of feel like we, Jesus: we feel that we can fairly easily feel people’s real condition and, Jesus: and so therefore we feel there’s not much to fear, Jesus: you know what I mean. Geoff: I’m not really that scary. Jesus: No. No. Jesus: No. And even when we’ve had others come to do interviews, Jesus: we have a, you know, Jesus: we can still feel their condition and what they’re intent is. Jesus: And, and the way we see the interview process Jesus: is that we’re happy to give an interview. Jesus: And what the person does with that interview is totally up to them. Jesus: Like, we, we don’t have any control of it. Jesus: As you can see we now record it as well. Jesus: And that’s only for our own record sake. Jesus: Because what we’ve found in the past Jesus: is we’ve made an agreement with many interviewers Jesus: and then they’ve reneged on that agreement Jesus: to provide us with the actual raw footage of the interview. Mary: It’s also about having a historical record of, Mary: of who we are and where we’re at right now. Mary: Like, we’re starting to be prompted and realised Mary: that perhaps that’s worth us keeping a record of as well. Mary: And so, yeah. Jesus: That’s what we’re doing, yeah. Jesus: It was good to meet you my friend. Geoff: Yep. You too. Jesus: You’re welcome to come out any time you want. Geoff: Thank you very much. I might just take you up on that offer.

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